Guys, I need help

Burn Witch Burn said:
Genome's suggestions are a great place to start. I would add that your best bet would be to pick one cab block to work with (and one amp if you can). The Cab really colors the sound arguably more than the amp. That's another discussion - but if you could reduce the variables and pick a single amp block and a single cab block to work with, then you can zero in on your desired tone.

If you can't crank up at home, then use a fairly decent set of headphones and dial in a sound. At rehearsal, crank that puppy up real quick, play a couple of open chords, a couple of palm mutes, a couple of high notes. In seconds, you'll know what you need to do. Even if you don't know much about EQ, start with the EQ settings Genome listed and adjust that.
Don't forget to reassess when the band is playing - if you're not cutting through, add mids. ...or cut highs and extreme lows. Get in there and mess around - turn some knobs!

Adjust the amp settings. You can't go wrong. If you like it better, save it. If you don't, then don't save. No risk.

I personally cut the bass at the cab block - high pass at 80 cycles. I use as few cab blocks as possible per show so that it all sounds uniform in the house.
Good luck, man!
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Thank you sir--that is a great idea with the headphones, never thought of that. I have a pair of the Blue amplified headphones and if I remember correctly (I don't use them much at all) my presets did sound pretty bright through them. Maybe they represent my amplified tone which would solve a lot of problems
 
RoshRoslin said:
Unfortunately, you will run into your issues over and over and over again. Try renting a rehearsal space for some time and dial it in at volume. If you aren't willing to invest a few bucks and a couple hours to really hear your stuff at volume, you're going to find a lot of disappointment in your live experience. YMMV
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Again, I am not sure that you are listening to what I want to do with the AXE. I want to be able to change my core tone from week to week. I am not interested in nailing down one sound that I will use for months at a time. IMO that diminishes the draw of the unit--to be able to experiment with over 200 different amps.

I don't want to have to book studio time and set aside several hours every time I want to try a new option.

I will definitely try the EQ suggestions provided here. Thanks all for the help.
 
tallcoolone said:
Again, I am not sure that you are listening to what I want to do with the AXE. I want to be able to change my core tone from week to week. I am not interested in nailing down one sound that I will use for months at a time. IMO that diminishes the draw of the unit--to be able to experiment with over 200 different amps.

I don't want to have to book studio time and set aside several hours every time I want to try a new option.

I will definitely try the EQ suggestions provided here. Thanks all for the help.
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I think this is possible with some ear training but it will most certainly involve getting into some of the engineering aspects of the Fractal.

I see no way to pull this off without understanding some of aspects of frequency response and how amplifiers and speakers interact.
 
tallcoolone said:
Again, I am not sure that you are listening to what I want to do with the AXE. I want to be able to change my core tone from week to week. I am not interested in nailing down one sound that I will use for months at a time. IMO that diminishes the draw of the unit--to be able to experiment with over 200 different amps.

I don't want to have to book studio time and set aside several hours every time I want to try a new option.

I will definitely try the EQ suggestions provided here. Thanks all for the help.
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So with fysical amps you'll be buying a new amp every week? Takes time as well dude.... This starts to get a bit silly, from the axe you want everything without spending a little time with it but you will also be happy with just one fysical amp? Whatever works for you I guess but it doesn't make much sense to me.

Good luck finding what you are really after
 
Gday tall,

Mate, this suggestion is a little out there, but may help - have you considered trying to get your cabs to sound like your studio monitors by eqing?

What I'd try, is take your cabs into your apartment or wherever your monitors are, get one of your favourite tracks going in both your monitors and into the axefx & cabs...(at a similar volume). Create a patch with just one eq block - nothing else- and compare the music in your monitors to the same music coming out of your guitar cabs....adjust the eq block until it's as close to the same sound as you can make it. Then- save that eq block, and add it at the end of all your favourite patches. When your playing into the monitors, disable that block. When you're playing live, enable it.
It'll cost nothing to try and just might get you enjoying things again.
Pauly
 
tallcoolone said:
I played out of tube amps for 25 years before I began using the AXE. I can assure you that they compress when pushed. Pretty much the exact opposite.

Thanks tho
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Yeah, through a cab. I think either Speaker Drive or Motor Drive might simulate this with the Axe (not sure which parameter exactly) Running the Axe-FX direct simulates a mic'ed cab though, not the direct sound out of the cab. So FOH engineers have the same problem when mic'ing a cab and will adjust mic placement and EQ accordingly.

That's why the right IR is essential and also to make the same kind of general EQ adjustments that FOH guys would do as I mentioned in my post.
 
Genome said:
Yeah, through a cab. I think either Speaker Drive or Motor Drive might simulate this with the Axe (not sure which parameter exactly) Running the Axe-FX direct simulates a mic'ed cab though, not the direct sound out of the cab. So FOH engineers have the same problem when mic'ing a cab and will adjust mic placement and EQ accordingly.

That's why the right IR is essential and also to make the same kind of general EQ adjustments that FOH guys would do as I mentioned in my post.
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Sorry man--this doesn't make any sense at all
 
McChiel said:
So with fysical amps you'll be buying a new amp every week? Takes time as well dude.... This starts to get a bit silly, from the axe you want everything without spending a little time with it but you will also be happy with just one fysical amp? Whatever works for you I guess but it doesn't make much sense to me.

Good luck finding what you are really after
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If I am going to be satisfied with one tone, I'm going to go with a tube (fysical lol) amp. If I am going to continue to use the AXE, I want to be able to change up my tone every week if I want. Without having to set aside a day and rent studio space.

Sorry if that sounds silly to you.
 
pauly said:
Gday tall,

Mate, this suggestion is a little out there, but may help - have you considered trying to get your cabs to sound like your studio monitors by eqing?

What I'd try, is take your cabs into your apartment or wherever your monitors are, get one of your favourite tracks going in both your monitors and into the axefx & cabs...(at a similar volume). Create a patch with just one eq block - nothing else- and compare the music in your monitors to the same music coming out of your guitar cabs....adjust the eq block until it's as close to the same sound as you can make it. Then- save that eq block, and add it at the end of all your favourite patches. When your playing into the monitors, disable that block. When you're playing live, enable it.
It'll cost nothing to try and just might get you enjoying things again.
Pauly
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You know man, I like it. I'll give it a shot this weekend. Thanks!
 
tallcoolone said:
I played out of tube amps for 25 years before I began using the AXE. I can assure you that they compress when pushed. Pretty much the exact opposite.

Thanks tho
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Fletcher Munson has nothing to do with how a tube amp, (or the modeling in the Axe FX) compresses when pushed. You actually have control over it in the AxeFX which enables you to compress your signal even more when you push it if you so desire.
Your issue is you don't want to learn about the AxeFX controls or the Fletcher Munson effect.

Sincerely,
Fletcher Munson
 
Over complicating it. Literally what I do is in the cab block, every cab block I use, I do my low cut and high cut there. Cut lows to tighten up the amp and get rid of woof, and then do a high cut, down to 6-8k, and that fixes the problem when cranked. can put any amp I want in there.
 
Perdikament said:
Fletcher Munson has nothing to do with how a tube amp, (or the modeling in the Axe FX) compresses when pushed. You actually have control over it in the AxeFX which enables you to compress your signal even more when you push it if you so desire.
Your issue is you don't want to learn about the AxeFX controls or the Fletcher Munson effect.

Sincerely,
Fletcher Munson
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No. The issue is that with a tube amp compression happens automatically when the volume knob is turned. I'm sure you are technically correct and there is an adjustable parameter that will account for this somewhere in the Fractal GUI. Is it really that difficult to wrap your head around that on stage it is easier to turn a volume knob? Or are you purposely being obtuse?

I will never understand the strange 'loyalty' that some here have with a $2700 black box. It's a tool. Like all tools, it isn't perfect for everyone's situation. When these situations arise there is no need to be offended and rush to protect the honor of the box. Most of you do not use the box live, which means you are not working under the same circumstances that I am.
 
dpeterson said:
Over complicating it. Literally what I do is in the cab block, every cab block I use, I do my low cut and high cut there. Cut lows to tighten up the amp and get rid of woof, and then do a high cut, down to 6-8k, and that fixes the problem when cranked. can put any amp I want in there.
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I'm really hoping you are right and what I've learned here will help me cut out these frequencies. Thanks
 
tallcoolone said:
Sorry man--this doesn't make any sense at all
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What part?

Running the Axe-FX direct is emulating the sound of a cabinet mic'ed up and through the PA, that's what an IR (impulse response) is - essentially a snapshot of a mic'ed cabinet. So it is the same principle as using a real amp head through a cabinet mic'ed into the PA.

It's not the same as a cabinet-in-the-room sound and therefore you need to approach it differently. You need to choose the right IR to suit you and make the same general EQ moves as a sound guy would at a gig at the mixing desk with your mic'ed amp and cab. I.E Remove the junk (HP and LP), make some cuts in the ice-picky frequency range (5k-6k), and adjust the mic (choosing the right IR)
 
Genome said:
What part?

Running the Axe-FX direct is emulating the sound of a cabinet mic'ed up and through the PA, that's what an IR (impulse response) is - essentially a snapshot of a mic'ed cabinet. So it is the same principle as using a real amp head through a cabinet mic'ed into the PA.

It's not the same as a cabinet-in-the-room sound and therefore you need to approach it differently. You need to choose the right IR to suit you and make the same general EQ moves as a sound guy would at a gig.
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When I mic a tube amp I turn it up and it sounds great. That's what I do--I put the mic in front of the speaker and turn the volume up. Always sounds like the tone I had at lower volumes, just more compressed. No matter what speaker or cab I am using. That good. With my AXE, I dial in amazing tones at loud stereo volumes but when I turn up my tone becomes boomier and brighter. That no good.

My 'audio engineer' is a 65 yr old ex-con who lives in his van who we pay $100 a night to. He's never adjusted my mic or EQ in his life. I'm lucky if he puts the mic on a stand for gods sake.
 
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It maybe sounds like you've not found the right IR yet for your tastes. Don't underestimate how important it is to get the right one - it's often overlooked. Funnily enough, I never really jived with the stock ones and have only ever used 3rd party IR's, live and in the studio. For live use I always used Ownhammer. Way more options and colours.

All you need to run direct well is to find a suitable IR that compliments you, use some general EQ cuts as mentioned (as well as the other tips I gave which are also effective) and you should get rid of those issues. Unfortunately the best way to do this is to dial it in at volume, but those earlier tips will get you in the ball park.

That being said -

The sound of a real cab is different and something the Axe-FX can't do without a power amp and cab. If you're hearing your real amp through the cab in the rehearsal room or gig venue the actual cab might be filling out some frequencies in the room that make it sound more pleasing. I actually moved to this rig after using the Axe-FX live for sometime, because I missed it.
 
'Amp in the room' is not something I miss at all with the AXE. Actually, even when I use tubes I rarely hear the guitar speaker--at home I run them through my studio monitors and on stage I am mostly hearing stage monitors.
 
tallcoolone said:
No. The issue is that with a tube amp compression happens automatically when the volume knob is turned. I'm sure you are technically correct and there is an adjustable parameter that will account for this somewhere in the Fractal GUI. Is it really that difficult to wrap your head around that on stage it is easier to turn a volume knob? Or are you purposely being obtuse?
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It's called the Master Volume on the Axe FX just like in a real amp. Also there's another preamp control called Input Drive on the Axe FX which is usually called Volume on an amp.
They work exactly the same, except, if you choose to do so, you can tweak all sorts of parameters within those two main controls on the Advanced menu options, which you cannot do on a real amp.
It has nothing at all to do with "loyalty to a $2500 box" it only has to do with trying to help you & educate you.
I could give a **** less what you choose to play thru & use as your gear.

There's actual science, (physics & biology) at play with the Fletcher Munson Effect.
And I promise you, it's not that abstruse of a concept to grasp.
 
From Simeon: i usually drop 6db at 8k and 16k and then 2 or 3db at 4k. same on the bottom - drop 32 by 6db, 64 by 2 and maybe some 127 as well, if needed. some pa's are really hyped in the upper mids and have super harsh tweeters. the sound guy should really have is act together and be able to get a decent sound, but as we all know, this is not very often the case...
 
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