Guitar shop pricing gone mad!

D

Dixiethedog

Experienced
I was out and about yesterday and popped into a couple of guitar shops in Newcastle (UK). My first thought at looking at new Gibson guitars was "WTF, HOW MUCH????!"

Is it me, or have prices gone crazy? The last time I visited one of the stores the top end Murphy Lab guitars were about an eye watering £5-6K price range. Now you need almost £9K for one. The more basic LP Stds seem to be near the £3K price.

When I was young, guitars were something that almost every home had, mostly cheap ones, some had nice ones if they were better off or lucky. My friends and I could save up a bit of money and buy ourselves cheap-ish used Les Paul's or Strats. But one way or another we all had the guitars we wanted and dreamed of. Incidentally, my 1st Gibson was a "Gibson The Paul", because I could not afford a Deluxe,Std or Custom. I then moved onto an ebony Custom. But they were good prices that most folk could afford if they put their mind to it. Obtainable. I don't consider myself to be rich, I would say I am more average, but there is no way on Earth that I could or would want to spend £8000+ on a guitar.

On the plus side though, the shop had a nice new Soldana half stack (30watt amp) which was about the £4K price area. I smiled to myself thinking that I have some Soldano's in my Fractal. :) That I can play with my old cheap Les Pauls.

Is it an age thing as I remember buying an AC30 for about £30 when I was young and then £50-100 for "old" Marshalls. As did my friends.

But the point I think I am making is that if I was a 16-17 year old now, dreaming of owning a Les Paul like my guitar hero it just would not happen.

Is guitar playing now a rich person's sport? Answers on a postcard, please.
 
Just as an aside to the above, when I walked into the store, a gentleman was trying out a new LP fairly loudly let us say. And his tone was dreadful. It made me think that if I was trying to sell an instrument (cheap or expensive) I would want the customer to have the best sound available. I even made a comment to the salesperson selling me new guitar strings "That it must be wonderful listening to all of the guitar players passing by", to which he pulled a face that showed his pain. "Screech, screech screech.. from the background as the guitar was tortured"
He should have been plugged into the Soldano or the nice looking Friedman. Not the little beginner type of combo that was being used.
To me, it was a "How not to sell a guitar situation!"
 
I think some new factory guitar prices are downright ridiculous lately.

My last three guitars have all been custom builds.

Way more rewarding because I know the guy that built it. Usually I get to participate in the building process.

I will also add that I find custom guitars no more than 20% above what the factory guitar costs, and often we’re pretty close (with a unique instrument).

These are usually classic re-creations with modern upgrades and appointments to take advantage of both vintage toanz w/ modern usability. These upgrades more than justify any additional premium ime.

End up with an instrument that is tailored for me; not some generic COTS solution.

In the end, I think it’s a far better value.

But I never intend to sell my instruments, and I’m sure most people don’t know the few makers/luthiers I work with.

IMG_2432.jpeg
 
Dixiethedog said:
Just as an aside to the above, when I walked into the store, a gentleman was trying out a new LP fairly loudly let us say. And his tone was dreadful. It made me think that if I was trying to sell an instrument (cheap or expensive) I would want the customer to have the best sound available. I even made a comment to the salesperson selling me new guitar strings "That it must be wonderful listening to all of the guitar players passing by", to which he pulled a face that showed his pain. "Screech, screech screech.. from the background as the guitar was tortured"
He should have been plugged into the Soldano or the nice looking Friedman. Not the little beginner type of combo that was being used.
To me, it was a "How not to sell a guitar situation!"
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Same thing couple of weeks back, was mooching around GG and some young lad battering the daylights out of a strat through a practice amp, sounded horrible but unlike me i think the shop staff are somewhat immune to it, hasty exit lol.
 
I would think the US's GDP to debt ratio has something to do with it! At 122% and rising is not good for the buying power of the US Dollar. Add to that the cost of US labor and it doesn't help. The VAT that is imposed in the UK adds even more to the cost so you guys over there get double tapped, what is it 20% or something?.
 
It is not just about guitars... Inflation, tax policy and business rules makes whole thing crazy... I could easy sell now my MM Bongo 6 for 30% more than I bought it 3 years ago... I had some nice gear talks with great young musicians (mid 20's) - they say it is nice to have Start, Tele, Les Paul etc. but for the price of those NEW instruments they can get descent luthier instrument - getting all nice features and none of known issues. The great brand instruments have lower quality but higher prices than few years ago. I got new Fender PB5 for crazy money ;I always dreamed to have one - I would never buy one for the price following mind, not heart. I think it is the last new instrument purchase from big player, next will be from luthier. It is the same with cars, bikes, computers etc.; constantly increasing "less for more"...
 
I would totally agree with the "less for more" ( @Wallygatorr1976 ).

It does not seem that long ago that I had the chance locally to buy a LP std for just under £1000. But the seller backed out, deciding that his Gibson was better than the Fender he had fancied buying. Now I would need £1500 to buy a similar s/h LP.
And as mentioned with cars, bikes etc.. things are the same. I am just starting a ground-up (bare frame) build on a motorcycle that has been sitting around for a couple of years and I initially thought I would sell for about the £2K area. Now looking elsewhere I could probably ask £4K for it once it is completed. Which I think is total madness. I still think £2K is about right but I would be shooting myself in the foot financially to do such a deal now.
@Geordielad, when you visited GG in Ncle, have you noticed how much smaller it is these days? Gone is the "Gibson" downstairs showroom and how much more compact it all seems to be. All cost-cutting moves I would dare say. Like yourself, I made a hasty exit from the shop as well, but not because of the screechy noise but because I had my Mrs in a mood somewhere outside. I can still hear her moans of "It's too hot...I'm thirsty...I'm hungry...I am sick of walking...I don't know why you want to look at stupid guitars...you have enough....You love your guitars more than you love me...."

Women eh? :) A visit to a beer garden soon put her right.
 
I should add that the gentleman trying out the new guitar was probably a great player, so I mean no disrespect to him. But the sound was horrible. :)
 
Yep!
Prices goes up and world goes more crazy everyday, energy, oil, food, daily groceries, health care etc. comes more and more expensive.
Many things affect those things. Hope humankind will make better decisions and learn to live in peace and love more music than some other things.
 
I've simply stopped purchasing guitars, especially from old brands that inflate their prices based upon clout. Granted, I'm pretty set as my modest collection can touch most bases within reason. If I need something, it's Craigslist and pawnshops for me.
 
∞Fractals said:
I think some new factory guitar prices are downright ridiculous lately.

My last three guitars have all been custom builds.

Way more rewarding because I know the guy that built it. Usually I get to participate in the building process.

I will also add that I find custom guitars no more than 20% above what the factory guitar costs, and often we’re pretty close (with a unique instrument).

These are usually classic re-creations with modern upgrades and appointments to take advantage of both vintage toanz w/ modern usability. These upgrades more than justify any additional premium ime.

End up with an instrument that is tailored for me; not some generic COTS solution.

In the end, I think it’s a far better value.

But I never intend to sell my instruments, and I’m sure most people don’t know the few makers/luthiers I work with.

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Forget about the gear, Man. You have a couple of gorgeous pups sitting right there!
 
Have you checked the guitar cabinet prices, these days?
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Honestly, have you checked what your dollar (or more likely your hundred dollars), can (or more likely, can't) buy at the grocery store these days, compared to 5 years ago?

My wife complains about "shrink-flation," where the box on the shelf is the same size as it was, but all of a sudden the "Net Weight" printed on the box is a different, significantly lower, number.

It's not the sole cause, but as Uncle Milton once said, "Sustained, broad-based inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon."

So it's worth looking up the number of dollars in circulation chasing goods and services, compared to 5 years ago. Have you looked?

For those who don't want to go looking it up: It's gone from roughly $14 Trillion in circulation to $21 Trillion*. And COVID gave us a couple of lost years of productivity, producing shrinkage -- no, not that kind of shrinkage, this isn't a cold day at the beach -- producing shrinkage in the value of total aggregate goods and services available to be purchased with all those circulating dollars.

If there were 100 gallons of milk in the whole world to buy, and nothing else was available or needed; and if the only currency in the whole world were 1000 Dogecoins, every gallon of milk would cost 10 Dogecoins, because at the most-basic level, available sought/offered value, divided by the number of units of currency pursuing/representing that value, just is the value of those currency units. (Unless they're made of a commodity like gold, of course; but modern currencies aren't.)

So in that scenario, if you doubled the number of Dogecoins in the world, but there were still only 100 gallons of milk to be had, it's easy math to say what the new cost of a gallon of milk would be. Barring externalities, every gallon immediately doubles price from 10 to 20 Dogecoins.

So what happens when the world of available value (goods and services) doesn't change much over 5 years, but the units of currency chasing that value goes up by 50%?

Naturally, you expect the price of everything to go up, on average, by 50%.

Of course there are externalities, and there are other currencies. So it varies. This is simplified, back-of-the-envelope stuff.

But the fundamental back-of-the-envelope calculation remains ballpark-predictive. The number of dollars rose by 50%, so everything costs 50% more.

So, you'd better hope your income rose by 50% over the same period, to keep up with the 50% increase in dollars. If you were making, say, a quite-respectable $100K per year 5 years ago, and then all those dollars burst into circulation, you'd better be making $150K today. 'Cause if your income only rose by 20% over the same period, then your buying power is only 4/5ths of what it was 5 years ago. (Even though your "nominal" income is a higher number!)

Think about that for a while.

Or maybe don't think about it. (That way lies the other kind of shrinkage.)

* source: https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply#:~:text=US M2 Money Supply is,3.69% from one year ago.
 
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"Honestly, have you checked what your dollar (or more likely your hundred dollars), can (or more likely, can't) buy at the grocery store these days, compared to 5 years ago?"

True!
 
Maybe it a case of the big name guitar builders getting what they can while they can still get it? IDK. It sure seems like PRS, Gibson, Shur, along with a host of others are in a race to see who can build the most expensive instrument. I saw a YT vid the other day where the guy was saying that guitars were going to be considered a luxury item and start being Taxed as such.
 
Dixiethedog said:
I would totally agree with the "less for more" ( @Wallygatorr1976 ).

It does not seem that long ago that I had the chance locally to buy a LP std for just under £1000. But the seller backed out, deciding that his Gibson was better than the Fender he had fancied buying. Now I would need £1500 to buy a similar s/h LP.
And as mentioned with cars, bikes etc.. things are the same. I am just starting a ground-up (bare frame) build on a motorcycle that has been sitting around for a couple of years and I initially thought I would sell for about the £2K area. Now looking elsewhere I could probably ask £4K for it once it is completed. Which I think is total madness. I still think £2K is about right but I would be shooting myself in the foot financially to do such a deal now.
@Geordielad, when you visited GG in Ncle, have you noticed how much smaller it is these days? Gone is the "Gibson" downstairs showroom and how much more compact it all seems to be. All cost-cutting moves I would dare say. Like yourself, I made a hasty exit from the shop as well, but not because of the screechy noise but because I had my Mrs in a mood somewhere outside. I can still hear her moans of "It's too hot...I'm thirsty...I'm hungry...I am sick of walking...I don't know why you want to look at stupid guitars...you have enough....You love your guitars more than you love me...."

Women eh? :) A visit to a beer garden soon put her right.
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Haha, if i have the Mrs with me i normally leave her in the 5 Swans pub and walk up. Yes its certainly got a lot smaller in there which tells a story, Normally buy my strings off Flea Bay now but 6 sets turned up yesterday, all fakes, duly reported to D'Addario so may have to do a return visist........
 
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