Hi everyone,
Ok been using the AXEFXIIXL in the studio direct to board it sounds great no complaints.
So wanting to use it for live work. I have a bunch of different cabs; 2x12s 4x12s all with v30s my preferred speaker.
Ok I am struggling to get it to sound right it just sounds too shrill, not very warm; I have tweaked and tweaked played it loud still cant get there.
I have cab sims off and just use amp sims and fx into a Matrix GT800FX amp then into some cabs
So I am thinking is FRFR the way to go I really like how the unit sounds in the studio.
Or do I need to try a different power amp (valve one for example) though I am trying to move away from valves if I can.
Any suggestions or tweaks would be welcome.
Thanks
With the help of the great people at Matrix, I wrote the following for another forum:
Here is some Q&A from Matrix that I thought would be of interest to others:
Q: I've been an Axe user since the original unit was released. I'm a huge fan of the Axe II and I've read many great things about Matrix on the Axe forum. I would like to learn to use a real power amp with the Axe and get a speaker cabinet. I would like to buy the best quality Matrix amp for indoors and for live gigs. Which model do you recommend and with which speaker cab that is no bigger than an AC-30 (even better if I can get smaller than an AC-30). I'm going to use all the Axe modeling and I want to get the most authentic tone possible.
I saw this quote by Cliff at Fractal: ""You will never get an FRFR solution to sound the same as an amp through a guitar cab. If you put your Axe-Fx through a neutral power amp and a guitar cab, I bet I could fool you in a blind test." I would like the speaker cab to be high quality and be able to work with the Matrix power amp to get to the level that Cliff is eluding to here. And of course I would like the power amp and guitar cab to come as close as possible to my AC-30.
A: OK, so there are 2 basic avenues to choose with going the Axe Fx route. One is called FRFR (full range, flat response) and the other is using a traditional guitar speaker. The FRFR system allows you to use the full capabilities of the Axe's cabinet simulations and the variety, tonally and choice wise it provides. The FRFR system is all dependent on the quality of the IR (impulse response) or cabinet simulation to put simply. This is the weak link, because it's basically a snapshot of a mic'd up cab - what you hear back is a mic'd up cab sound. You tend to lose the "in the room" feel of a real cab. Some players cannot translate to this style whilst others do so easier. Obviously the quality of the FRFR delivery system is important and the flatter the better but the right IR choice is crucial to get as realistic a sound as possible. Multiple mic'd IR's and ones that capture some of the room essences are tending to gain favor as these sound "realer" than the early close mic'd ones.
A traditional cab will give you the "in the room" feel and 3D aspect of sound, however, to a certain extent all your sounds will be coloured by the cab and it's individual tonality.
I point this out to you as you will need to look at the sounds you are using and what you are hoping to achieve sound wise. If you are used to one tone then obviously that may be easier to stick to the traditional cab route. Also to consider is stereo. I see from the email that U2 is going to be a factor in this and possibly recreating The Edge's tones. The Axe is capable of doing a more than adequate job of the AC30 preamps and the Matrix amps will do the power side of things no problem. A Vox cab will recreate the tone pretty much spot on.
Saying that, there are some tricks to get an FRFR system close to that "cab in the room" feel. One trick is to add some mids to the cab. Some people do this at the end of the chain, I tend to do this with a PEQ block in parallel with the cab block. I block the high and low frequencies and boost the mids to recreate the flavour of the cab that's in the cab sim. I also add some high mids to help cut through and this works very well. Some people have also found that the "Air" control in the cab block can give some added feeling. Set the amount to about 20% and the frequency to around 5khz and this also gives some of the sparkle back to the "in the room" sound.
So the FRFR route is not a dead end for everyone and there are some work-arounds if you are willing to be flexible and tweak a little.
Forgive the long email so far but I obviously wanted to point out the benefits and pitfalls of both systems and give you the full info to make the right choice.
So on to the gear.
Small and portable seems to be the pre-requisite. The amps themselves are lightweight. I'd recommend the GT1000Fx 2U amp. The 2U is almost silent for home use, not much heavier than the 1U and of course stereo. You would be able to use different amp models to different speakers if you needed to, even different rated speakers (say a 16ohm and an 8ohm).The amp will happily handle that or even no speaker attached. The GT1500 was in reality developed for wet dry wet setups. I think the GT1000 would be sufficient.
So on to the speakers. FRFR wise I'd say the Q12's would be the way to go. Small (slightly smaller than a Mesa 1x12 Thiele cab).
If FRFR would be a step too far at the moment and you feel you may not get used to the drawbacks, then the NL12s may be more suitable. These are ultra lightweight and small but have a huge sound. They are standard guitar cabs but are fairly neutral sounding and quite flat in the low mids, so they do lend themselves well to being EQ'd and having their sound changed. This aspect has led some users to using IR's with them and finding they work. (will depend on the individuals taste and of course the IR used). You still retain the benefit of the cab feel but with it being fairly neutral, you can tonally imprint a lot of variety into the sounds.
My recommendation would be 2 NL12's and a GT1000FX 2U. Ultra portable live rig or small setup for home, stereo with a wide spread and the cabs have a good wide dispersion (almost open backed in feel) as well as sounding like a good 2x12.
Have a think and weigh up the info I've given you. The FRFR route will require more in depth tweaking. Obviously you'll no more on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go with that!
The NL212 is stereo in fact. (stereo/mono switchable) so that should be great. Obviously the stereo spread isn't as great as two wider spaced NL12s but should be sufficient and slightly better than a normal 212.
Q: When using the Matrix power amp and the cab, do you turn off the power amp modeling in the Axe also? So the path is just pre-amp model into Matrix power amp into Matrix cab. You mentioned that some people use IRs with the Matrix NL212 cab. How do they add the IR? Do you just add a cab block after the amp model block (with power amp off) before going to the Matrix power amp? I want to make sure I understand how I will use the NL212 with and without IRs.
A: Leave the power amp sims ON in the Axe Fx. Adding the IR is basically just adding a cab block to the signal chain. Experiment with what sounds best to you IR wise. Normally it will sound better with no cab sim but you may find some that work well which act like an EQ basically.
Q: Thank you. So the Matrix power amp is just FRFR volume and adds no "power amp color." The Matrix cab adds color but I can use the IR/cab to add additional color or change the EQ if I can't get what I want with the detailed amp settings and amp EQ page.
A: The Matrix amp is flat response and obviously full range yes, it won't add coloration to the sound or impart it's own EQ like a valve amp. All the tube characteristics and tonal shaping, should come from the Axe Fx. The cabs as you say add their own color but will accept added EQ or IR's (an IR is after all a fancy EQ) a little better than most other speakers as they are a little more neutral. Some of the Advanced amp tweaks in the Axe won't affect the EQ, just how the amp feels and how certain frequencies "feel". One of the things we did with the GT1000 over the GT800 was change how the low end controls and interacts with a speaker load, making it react more like a valve amp does.....this didn't change the EQ in any way but changed the "looseness" of the low mids.
What I ultimate did:
I ultimately went with the NL212 cab. It has a flat response and I don't need to deal with IRs. I just adjust the amp model block to compensate for the NL212. You can get any tone with just one cab - all you do is adjust the amp model block since there is so much flexibility with so many parameters. I chose not to have to deal with IRs and cabs, as it requires more time. The one cab fixes that point in the chain and forces me to focus on the amp model.
