Gigging Guitar/Bass Players: Ultra or Standard?

[jarrett]

I'm primarily going to be using my Axe-FX live and trying to decide if I should get the Ultra or the Standard. I'm not a big effects guy in general, but some of the effects in the Ultra sound interesting on paper. I just wanted to get a feel for what current users think regarding this. Thanks in advance.

 

[Sebastian]

I use some Ultra-only features at rehearsals and plan to use more at gigs, because I'm the only guitar player in the band.
For example, I'm glad I have the looper and custom scales/arbitrary pitch shifting.

The ability to have double amp, double cab patches with several effects shouldn't be disregarded, either! (more CPU power than Std. Axe-Fx)
I think this comes even more into play at gigs. When recording, you could always re-amp or track a second time.

Seb

 

[mortega76]

The more relevant question might be whether you plan on using two amps with two cabs at once ... that's what seems to max out the Standard quiet fast. I voted that I don't use the Ultra's extra effects live even though I do... the only thing that I use "Ultra Exclusive" is the Gate... which is a lot smoother than the "built in" gate.

 

[voes]

I don't use the extra functionalities of the ultra yet. (planning to use the vocoder one of these days), but I need the extra CPU power

 

[rdomain]

If you're not an fx guy, I dare say you'd be fine with the standard. I AM an fx guy and I get by using the standard live. I haven't seen if I run out of room using 2 amps etc yet but you can easily run 2 different cabs with a stereo cab feed to the desk and a zero cab sim to your power amp/guitar rig.

"I own the standard but I'd like to have an ultra cause I'm a gear junkie"

 

[browlett]

Didn't this topic already exist in another thread yesterday? In fact, i replied in it, but it seems to be gone. I can't even see my reply in my "recent posts" link. Oh, well...

One of the GREAT features of the Ultra for live use (particularly if you do any solo acoustic stuff) is the Looper. It essentially allows you to store a loop of any rhythm guitar riff or chord progression & loop it for as long as you need. This is a really great tool for adding guitar solos or 2nd guitars to songs when doing solo acoustic gigs. It can fill out a "1-man band" performance on some songs. Really neat tool if you learn how to use it effectively. (For those who have never done this, you can quickly "record" the rhythm guitar chord progression that repeats under a guitar solo. When that part of the song comes, step on a button to get it to play. Now, you're free to play a lead while the rhythm guitar plays under you. Hit a button with your foot to make it stop at the end of that part of the song.)

Further, the increased processing power & speed will come in handy if and when you start creating complex patches. You have much more flexibility to get creative. As was mentioned earlier, you can do things like have multiple amps and cabinets in one patch along with more effects.

The multi-tap delays are fantastic, as well. They're an Ultra-exclusive feature.

My thought process was "If I'm going to spend a lot of money on one of these, I'm getting the best one and REALLY do it." I have never once thought, "I want the few hundred dollars back. I should have just gone with the standard." ...Nor have I ever heard anyone else say that on these forums. Conversely, I HAVE heard people with Standard say that they're getting an Ultra or already have.

But, not everyone's needs are the same. I recommend it if you can afford it.

 

[Sebastian]

My thought process was "If I'm going to spend a lot of money on one of these, I'm getting the best one and REALLY do it." I have never once thought, "I want the few hundred dollars back.

Exactly the same here!
I waited more than 10 months for my Ultra and to get a Standard would have taken a month more.
When I decided to drop that amount of money with the intention to keep the Axe for at least several years (well, I can't imagine to ever get rid of it),
how much are 500 $ or € over the time...

Seb

 

[michl_666]

My thought process was "If I'm going to spend a lot of money on one of these, I'm getting the best one and REALLY do it." I have never once thought, "I want the few hundred dollars back.

Exactly the same here!
I waited more than 10 months for my Ultra and to get a Standard would have taken a month more.
When I decided to drop that amount of money with the intention to keep the Axe for at least several years (well, I can't imagine to ever get rid of it),
how much are 500 $ or € over the time...

Seb

+1
Micha

 

[ElectricPhase]

I wish I'd gotten an Ultra. I think it's more from the desire to have the biggest, baddest machine around rather than an actual need that the Standard doesn't fill.

 

[steverosburg]

I don't use the extra functionalities of the ultra yet. (planning to use the vocoder one of these days), but I need the extra CPU power

+1

 

[fandyboy]

There's a bit of snobbery on this thread.

"If you're not an fx guy, I dare say you'd be fine with the standard. "

Erm, excuse me, I am an FX guy, a MASSIVE FX guy, probably more than you in fact. You can have tonnes of FX on a standard, just not with two cabs and amps.

The truth is the Standard is an FX junkies dream, sure the Ultra has some nice niche extras (vocoder? arpeggiator!?) and if you want the peace of mind of that extra CPU then fine, I understand that. But with the EXACT same tech and algorithms in the Standard how can anyone possibly say it's for non-FX people. Clearly people a little bit up themselves that's who.

 

[Jed]

The truth is the Standard is an FX junkies dream, sure the Ultra has some nice niche extras (vocoder? arpeggiator!?) and if you want the peace of mind of that extra CPU then fine, I understand that. But with the EXACT same tech and algorithms in the Standard how can anyone possibly say it's for non-FX people. Clearly people a little bit up themselves that's who.

Easy there fandyboy, no one was attacking you . . it was a general statement for use by the OP. I'm glad to hear that the standard does everything you need (especially given that you are a self-professed heavy effects user). I don't use anywhere near the capacity of my Ultra, but in retrospect I would not have been happy with a standard just because I'd always be wondering what I was missing. I didn't pay the extra money for features or CPU capacity. . . I bought the Ultra for peace of mind, knowing that the unit had more to give than I should ever need.

We are each motivated by different things. Bottom line is that the Standard is awesome, the Ultra . . almost decadent. But so what, people will buy what they want based of their individual needs and wants. Fortunately in the case of the Fractal offerings either the Standard or the Ultra will deliver on the promise more so than other alternatives.

cheers,

Jed

 

[steverosburg]

There's a bit of snobbery on this thread.

"If you're not an fx guy, I dare say you'd be fine with the standard. "

Erm, excuse me, I am an FX guy, a MASSIVE FX guy, probably more than you in fact. You can have tonnes of FX on a standard, just not with two cabs and amps.

The truth is the Standard is an FX junkies dream, sure the Ultra has some nice niche extras (vocoder? arpeggiator!?) and if you want the peace of mind of that extra CPU then fine, I understand that. But with the EXACT same tech and algorithms in the Standard how can anyone possibly say it's for non-FX people. Clearly people a little bit up themselves that's who.

I hope there's no snobbery here. It's a personal value decision for everyone; if a prospective buyer asks whether the Standard will do the job, then others will be inclined to answer according to their thoughts. For me, I didn't take that approach at all when I made my purchase. I knew I would be happy with the Standard, but I wanted to future-proof myself as much as possible. My wife is not exactly thrilled about dropping a couple grand on something that doesn't involve Disneyland, so I try to make sure any such purchases will stand up as long as possible. I approach every purchase with the same attitude -- guitars, tools, bicycles etc. I buy the best I can afford and then never spend a moment worrying about whether I should have bought the next model up. I certainly don't think any less/worse of those who don't share my philosophy, couldn't afford the Ultra, or just couldn't justify the cost differential.

 

[Jed]

so I try to make sure any such purchases will stand up as long as possible. I approach every purchase with the same attitude -- guitars, tools, bicycles etc. I buy the best I can afford and then never spend a moment worrying about whether I should have bought the next model up. I certainly don't think any less/worse of those who don't share my philosophy, couldn't afford the Ultra, or just couldn't justify the cost differential.

Well said !

 

[Lopp]

I have the Standard and gig with it and it is exactly what I need. In fact, it is more than I need.

Yes, it would be nice to have the Ultra just to be able to say I have the most high-end. Then I realize it's just the consumerism mentality driving my urge. The mentality of spending just a bit more to get a bit better even though I already have all I need. "Super size me."

 

[chase]

Yeah, it's a bit inaccurate to say that FX-heavy players will be better off with the Ultra. If you don't use a lot of effects, you're probably not going to max out the Standard - and if you do use a lot of effects but you don't run two amps at once, you're probably still fine with the Standard. I'm a heavy effects user, and I have a Standard; just about the only time I hit the CPU ceiling is when I have two amps plus a bunch of other stuff (reverb, chorus, pitch, delays, drive) all at once. It's possible to run out of columns in the effects chain before you run out of CPU.

I do plan on moving to an Ultra at some point: partly for the extra headroom to go a little crazy, partly for the Quad Chorus and extra delay effects, and partly for the room for future effects. But I haven't yet because I honestly don't need it.

 

[Mr.347]

Standard...way enough stuff to go. :geek:

 

[jarrett]

Thanks for all the input. Historically, I'm not a heavy effects user at all, but on my new gig I'm kind of the "effects guy". The Boss GT-8 and Line6 POD X3Live have historically had enough effects for me and the Standard seems to be a quite a leap a head of those.

I'm still considering which to go with. I just ran through the Wiki and compiled the major differences I could find between the Standard and the Ultra. The summary seems like:

More memory (plus to me)
Better Gate (slight plus to me)
Quad Chorus (I like chorus but the Standard's chorus satisfies me)
Looper (this is the most interesting to me)
Better pitch shifting (slight interest)

Better compressor (no interest)
Better crossover (no interest)
Resonator/Ring Mod (no interest)
Vocoder (can't think of a use)
Better delays (no major interest)
Synth (very little interest)

That's about 40% of the differences on the Ultra that I think I might use which makes me think it might not be worth it for my purposes. My main concern is that possible time in the future where the Standard becomes tapped out, but the Wiki mentions this:

"The Axe-Fx Standard is limited by the amount of memory on board to the existing feature set. Effects can be updated, with new controls and tweaks being added, but expansion is highly unlikely. The Ultra has much more room for growth. Cliff has stated his intention to keep the quality of the effects, especially the Amp & Cab sims, the same in both processors. Thus the Standard isn't an "inferior" or "outdated" product, it simply has a more specific feature definition."

Just in case others are in the same boat, here are some excerpts from the Wiki on features the Ultra has over the Standard:

Additional Ultra features
* 20% faster DSP plus 6X more memory.
* More sequencer steps (16 instead of 8)

Gate / Expander
The expander module is sort of a “compressor in reverse”. When the signal level is below the threshold the gain is reduced. The Axe-Fx UltraTM gate/expander block can be used as a gate or expander (as the name suggests).

Multiband Compressor
The Axe-Fx UltraTM contains a three-band compressor that is great for mastering or compression of a whole mix. It also works great after distortion to help thicken the tone. The basic principle of the Multi-Band compressor is that the input is divided into three bands using a crossover. Compression is applied to the individual bands and then the outputs recombined. This allows isolating bands of the input material and applying different amounts of compression. Multi-Band compression is the de-facto mastering tool and can really improve the final mix.

Crossover
The Axe-Fx UltraTM contains two, two-way stereo crossovers. These crossovers contain 4th-order Linkwitz-Reilly filters. You can combine the two crossovers to form a three-way crossover with a little imaginative routing.

Resonator
The Axe-Fx Ultra Resonator is four resonant comb filters in parallel. By tuning the comb filters a metallic or resonant timbre can be achieved from normally non-musical signals. The Resonator works best on transient signals like speech or percussion but can also be used to add unique character to musical inputs.

Quad Chorus
The Axe-Fx Ultra Quad Chorus is the ultimate chorus effect. Four independent chorus units are modulated by four separate LFO’s. The result is an incredibly lush and liquid chorus sound. It takes a little while to program but the effort is well worth the investment.

Vocoder
The Axe-Fx Vocoder pays faithful homage to those early analog vocoders. Using a true constant-Q approach the Axe-Fx Vocoder can be used to make your guitar “talk” or make your voice sound like a robot or other strange and interesting effects.

Looper
The Looper is a sixteen second phrase sampler.

Ten Tap Delay
The Ten Tap Delay is a special kind of delay that allows you to precisely control the repeats. It is implemented essentially as 10 delays in series.

Rhythm Tap Delay
The Rhythm Tap Delay uses basically the same algorithm as the Ten Tap Delay but allows you to enter the exact rhythm of the repeats.

MegaTap Delay
The Axe-Fx UltraTM MegaTap Delay is a 2.5 second, 40-tap delay line with paramteric control of time, amplitude, and panning. This effect can be used to create interesting delay patterns or as a “density increaser” for use before reverberant effects.

Advanced whammy
The Advanced Whammy mode is identical to the Classic Whammy mode except that the start and stop shift amounts are controllable in semitone increments.

Arpeggiator
The Arpeggiator is a 16-stage sequencer that controls the pitch shift. Complex arpeggio patterns can be created just by playing a single note.

Custom Shifter
The Custom Shifter is identical to the Intelligent Harmony except that it uses the custom shift tables stored in the global memory.

Synth
The Axe-Fx UltraTM contains two dual-voice monophonic synthesizers. These are classic oscillator-based synthesizers and can be used to do synth leads with your guitar or other instrument input. Alternatively, they can be controlled manually.

Ring Modulator
The Ring Modulator is a double-sideband modulator that can be used to create harmonically unrelated tones from the input. The Axe-Fx Ring Modulator differs from the classic effect in that the frequency can be controlled by the pitch of the input.

Global Scales
The Axe-Fx UltraTM has the ability to define up to 32 custom scales. A custom scale is an arbitrary table of pitch shift values that need not conform to any conventional definition of a scale. Custom scales can be used to create harmonic counterpoint using the Custom Shifter mode of the Pitch block or other non-standard harmonic relationships.