Gift of Tone 2023 FINAL - Neal Schon!

Moke said:
There are a few hurdles with that.
  1. The Reverb model used doesn't exist in the AX8 or Axe-Fx II. Could likely find/tweak a reasonable substitute?
  2. The Preset uses three different channels. Could break it up into 2 presets. One Green (Clean) channel, and one Orange (Rhythm) and Red (Lead) channels?
  3. The Modelling has changed quite a bit over the years. Even using the same Amp and Effect "models" and settings (where available), it will sound different. Manual tweaking can get it closer, but a 'Live Tone Match' using the Axe-Fx II might be useful in bridging the final gap, if necessary?
I may take a stab at this when I get time and see how close I can get? I will include Neal's expression pedal attachments for the Delay and Reverb.
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Being 100% honest, the lead tone is the only one I am lusting over. I'm good with my rhythm/clean tones.
 
MockingbirdSupreme said:
You don't know how badly I wish I could. I'm a just retired high school teacher married to a recently retired middle school band director with a disabled 23-year old daughter at home...the only reason I was able to spring for the AX8 was I found one online that had been pawned and got a really sweet deal on...otherwise I'd still be running with my Eleven Rack.

Reality, at times, sucks. Oh well!! It could always be worse!! I'm thrilled with the AX8 overall...does everything I need it to do (other than handle the Schon presets!).
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Oh, I was just having some fun with the pic. I get that everyone's situation can be different and some are difficult.

I think it'd take someone who had both units to be able to sit down and even attempt to translate it to the AX8. Just using EQ as an example (which is huge), there is no way to objectively say "Okay, the bass is at point A so that equates to B on the AX8." That would be the situation with almost every parameter being set. Then you have to figure some workarounds for the other points Moke brought up. I have to imagine the AX8 could pull off something convincing I just don't know how to approximate it w/o A/Bing the two units together.

I just opened the preset with FracTool to see if I could attempt to convert for the AX8 and that is not an option.
 
fcs101 said:
Oh, I was just having some fun with the pic. I get that everyone's situation can be different and some are difficult.

I think it'd take someone who had both units to be able to sit down and even attempt to translate it to the AX8. Just using EQ as an example (which is huge), there is no way to objectively say "Okay, the bass is at point A so that equates to B on the AX8." That would be the situation with almost every parameter being set. Then you have to figure some workarounds for the other points Moke brought up. I have to imagine the AX8 could pull off something convincing I just don't know how to approximate it w/o A/Bing the two units together.

I just opened the preset with FracTool to see if I could attempt to convert for the AX8 and that is not an option.
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I know you were joshing with the pic...but I wasn't! I really do wish I could upgrade...BUT, if I'm happy with what I'm using...not sure it would be worth it.

Thank you so much for trying to convert it! The worst thing that will happen is I'll keep on cruising with my 'signature' preset that I've been working on with the AX8 for YEARS...
 

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MockingbirdSupreme said:
I know you were joshing with the pic...but I wasn't! I really do wish I could upgrade...BUT, if I'm happy with what I'm using...not sure it would be worth it.

Thank you so much for trying to convert it! The worst thing that will happen is I'll keep on cruising with my 'signature' preset that I've been working on with the AX8 for YEARS...
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There are some isolated lead and rhythm tracks from him available on the web.

Tone match is a quick work around.

I have a few personal Journey Ax8 presets based off humbucker bridge (PAF).
 
reclavea said:
There are some isolated lead and rhythm tracks from him available on the web.

Tone match is a quick work around.

I have a few personal Journey Ax8 presets based off humbucker bridge (PAF).
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I don't think the AX8 does tone match.
 
So I just saw Toto and Journey in Baltimore last Sunday and was super excited to hear this live. Have to say, I was a bit let down. I feel like Neal has sounded better in the past. Tonally he sounded good but he lacked articulation and overall the mix sounded way too wet. I'm not sure how much of this was due to the choice of reverbs and how much is due to the fact that he seems to have the Sustainer on most of the time? I know it wasn't the venue or where I was sitting, because Luke sounded amazing before him and a lot more articulate playing through a Bogner and what seemed to be a pretty simple rig.
 
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Jesse said:
So I just saw Toto and Journey in Baltimore last Sunday and was super excited to hear this live. Have to say, I was a bit let down. I feel like Neal has sounded better in the past. Tonally he sounded good but he lacked articulation and overall the mix sounded way too wet. I'm not sure how much of this was due to the choice of reverbs and how much is due to the fact that he seems to have the Sustainer on most of the time? I know it wasn't the venue or where I was sitting, because Luke sounded amazing before him and a lot more articulate playing through a Bogner and what seemed to be a pretty simple rig.
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I know what you're saying. I'm a huge, huge Schon fan...to me his lead tone is sick. He uses reverb and delay to help shape that tone, which has become a part of my personal tone as well.

However, when you're that heavily 'effected' you lose some of your dynamics and 'crispness' in your phrasing. And...it seems more and more Neal uses some of his phrasing almost more as percussion than anything, creating that huge, booming reverb/delay explosion he uses between legit 'musical' phrases.

He seems to have two modes: 1) slow, tasteful, and very musical, or 2) so fast the notes become a blur.

Watch this, and note how often he lays his fingers totally flat against the fretboard during those spots - which means almost any accuracy with the notes is gone:



BUT...that huge boom thing has become a part of his playing. So not that there's necessarily anything 'wrong' with it...but if you're looking for crisp musical phrasing, when he takes off on one of his 'blurs' it just isn't going to be there.
 
MockingbirdSupreme said:
I know what you're saying. I'm a huge, huge Schon fan...to me his lead tone is sick. He uses reverb and delay to help shape that tone, which has become a part of my personal tone as well.

However, when you're that heavily 'effected' you lose some of your dynamics and 'crispness' in your phrasing. And...it seems more and more Neal uses some of his phrasing almost more as percussion than anything, creating that huge, booming reverb/delay explosion he uses between legit 'musical' phrases.

He seems to have two modes: 1) slow, tasteful, and very musical, or 2) so fast the notes become a blur.

Watch this, and note how often he lays his fingers totally flat against the fretboard during those spots - which means almost any accuracy with the notes is gone:



BUT...that huge boom thing has become a part of his playing. So not that there's necessarily anything 'wrong' with it...but if you're looking for crisp musical phrasing, when he takes off on one of his 'blurs' it just isn't going to be there.
Click to expand...

I can hear it now that you mentioned it.
In no way am I questioning Neil’s ability , he has chops to no end .
I know this is comparing apples to oranges but…
What’s your opinion on this as far as crisp phrasing?
 
duzie said:
I can hear it now that you mentioned it.
In no way am I questioning Neil’s ability , he has chops to no end .
I know this is comparing apples to oranges but…
What’s your opinion on this as far as crisp phrasing?
Click to expand...

Oh man...Schenker and Matthias Jabs are two of my faves...but a totally different approach to the instrument.

In this one almost every note matters...and you can tell he's being very deliberate about what he's choosing to play. For me, on the whole that entire effort is very crisp. But...with that said...if I was just listening to it without knowing who it is I'm not sure I could tell this from 1000 other players.

Neal is using those 'blurs' to connect the more deliberate parts of his phrasing, which for me is cool, very unique. 'Distinctive' is the word that comes to mind. Same test - if you hear what he's playing even if you don't know who it is you pretty much can ID him immediately. That's the common denominator between the real, true greats.
 
duzie said:
I can hear it now that you mentioned it.
In no way am I questioning Neil’s ability , he has chops to no end .
I know this is comparing apples to oranges but…
What’s your opinion on this as far as crisp phrasing?
Click to expand...

What else to say? this is genius and words are useless..
 
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