Get GSP-1101 to synch to Axe FX II's tempo?

D

Dr. Dipwad

Experienced
Hi,

I have a Digitech GSP-1101 in my rack, that's hooked into the Axe FX II's effects loop. (I'm using an MFC-101 in Axe FX II mode to control the Axe FX II, and then there's a MIDI running out of the Out/Thru jack of the Axe FX II, into the In jack of the GSP-1101.)

I'd like to try some patches with beat-synched effects (delay, tremolo, etc.).

But I can't get the GSP-1101 to receive any Tap Tempo CC messages from the Axe FX II.

I see a little blue "MIDI message received" light on the front of the GSP-1101, and that little light actually blinks in time with the light on the Tempo button of the Axe FX II (and also the light of the Tap Tempo button on the MFC-101).

So, that little blue light tells me that the GSP-1101 is "hearing" some kind of MIDI message from the Axe FX II. And the fact that it pulses quickly when the Axe FX II tempo is fast, and slowly when the Axe FX II tempo is slow, tells me that what it's hearing are...tap tempo pulses!

And yet...no matter which CC# I set the GSP-1101 to "listen to" for Tap Tempo messages, nothing works. The Global Tempo of the GSP-1101 remains unaffected by these pulses it's "hearing." The delays, etc., never match the tempo of the Axe FX II.

What am I missing?

Isn't the Axe FX II outputting some kind of Tap Tempo signal? And if that's not what it is, how come the signal it's sending is being sent repeatedly, in perfect time with the tempo?
 
Okay, since I'm getting more views than replies (not snarking; I'm genuinely grateful for this forum), here's a simpler re-stating of the question:

DOES the Axe FX II automatically send out Tap Tempo pulses, all the time, via MIDI?

And, if so, what CC# and values does it send? Or is it some kind of Sysex thing?
 
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I haven't checked with the Axe Fx but normally guitar effects dosen't send out midi time code. The only pedal that i have had that would send out midi time code was the Pigtronix Echolution 2. Before I used a Midipal for this before in my other rig. You see it here in my video...

 
According to Axe Fx Wiki it says:

MIDI Clock
  • The Axe-Fx II, FX8 and AX8 can't be used as a MIDI Clock source to other devices.
 
Max, thanks for your reply.

I also saw that MIDI Clock note, stating that Axe FX II does not send out MIDI Clock messages to other devices.

What I have not seen, though, is anything about whether the Axe FX II sends out a regular-pulsing CC message which can be "heard" by MIDI-aware devices as a Tap Tempo message.

Yet, it seems to do precisely that. For when I plug a MIDI cable from the Axe FX II into my GSP-1101, immediately there's a little blue light on the GSP-1101 which starts pulsing in time with the Tempo button-light on the Axe FX II.

The manual for GSP-1101 identifies that little blue light as "USB," oddly.

But clearly it's responding to MIDI messages being sent from the Axe FX II. After all,
1. there is no USB currently plugged in;
2. the only thing plugged in to the GSP-1101 is that MIDI cable coming from the Axe FX II; and
3. the light is blinking in time with the Axe FX II tempo, and changes blink-rate when I change the Axe FX tempo.

So whatever the Axe FX II is sending, is a MIDI message; it sends that same message every time the light pulses, and if I can get the GSP-1101 to "hear" that message as a CC message, then I can get the GSP-1101 to update its tempo.

Anyone else have any ideas? Some real MIDI-wizards out there?
 
Dr. Dipwad said:
Max, thanks for your reply.

I also saw that MIDI Clock note, stating that Axe FX II does not send out MIDI Clock messages to other devices.

What I have not seen, though, is anything about whether the Axe FX II sends out a regular-pulsing CC message which can be "heard" by MIDI-aware devices as a Tap Tempo message.

Yet, it seems to do precisely that. For when I plug a MIDI cable from the Axe FX II into my GSP-1101, immediately there's a little blue light on the GSP-1101 which starts pulsing in time with the Tempo button-light on the Axe FX II.

The manual for GSP-1101 identifies that little blue light as "USB," oddly.

But clearly it's responding to MIDI messages being sent from the Axe FX II. After all,
1. there is no USB currently plugged in;
2. the only thing plugged in to the GSP-1101 is that MIDI cable coming from the Axe FX II; and
3. the light is blinking in time with the Axe FX II tempo, and changes blink-rate when I change the Axe FX tempo.

So whatever the Axe FX II is sending, is a MIDI message; it sends that same message every time the light pulses, and if I can get the GSP-1101 to "hear" that message as a CC message, then I can get the GSP-1101 to update its tempo.

Anyone else have any ideas? Some real MIDI-wizards out there?
Click to expand...

I believe the blinking you are seeing is due to the Sysex tap tempo message the Axe FX is sending. To verify this, go to the Axe FX IO menu-> Midi and set Send Realtime Sysex to "Tuner" or "None" and you should see the blinking stop.

Here's the Wiki page on Sysex: http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/gen1/i...ysEx_Documentation&oldid=3738#MIDI_TEMPO_BEAT

So, the Axe FX is sending out tempo data but not in a way that another device can respond to.
-
Austin
 
Max Haze: Unfortunately, this is all for live performance.

atquinn: I bet you're right. When I get home I'll try that test out right away. Thanks!
 
You can get a midipal or an old drum machine. They will both send midi clock.

I can recommend the midipal but if you would like to use a tap tempo foot switch then this one seams cool...

 
You can also buy the Morningstar Engineering MC6 MIDI Controller. This is a super cool midi controller with built in midi clock among a lot of other features. It's fully programable and you can name everything yourself. A really cool pedal...

 
OK this maybe something you've already checked and I may be way off. I use my MFC to control the Tap Tempo on my TC Helicon Voicelive all the time so I know it works for this purpose. I don't have my stuff handy to tell you how I have it set up and I did it a while ago. As I recall the TC had to have a setting switched to accept tempo over MIDI before it worked. Also make sure you have MFC ECHO TO MIDI OUT to “ON” in the I/O There is something I looked up the GSP1101 manual you may have to do:

MIDI Tempo The GSP1101’s MIDI Tempo option allows incoming MIDI time code to set the delay time of the delay effects. When this option is set to ON, the GSP1101 delays respond to MIDI time messages it receives. To set the MIDI Tempo From the Preset screen, press the Edit/Select knob. Turn the Edit/Select knob until the MIDI menu is selected and press the knob. Turn the Edit/Select knob until Merge Tempo is selected. Press the Edit/Select knob to turn the option on or off. Press the Back button to return to the previous menu.

So you aren't going to need the AXE to be a clock you are just needing the MFC to send a tap tempo thru the AXE. Hopefully this helps.

-Brian
 
Brian:

I think I already tried those settings on the Axe FX II and the GSP-1101. When I get home tonight I'll re-check.

I suppose I could change one footswitch on the MFC-101 to send MIDI CC#14 instead of the normal Tap Tempo. Then I could set the GSP-1101 and the Axe FX II to both expect Tap Tempo via MIDI, and they'd be in synch.

But there are two problems with that:

1. I think I'd lose the Tap Tempo light on the MFC-101, which I like;
2. I wouldn't be able to control them both using the rotary encoder on the front of the Axe FX II (for setting precise tempos for particular songs). It would only affect the Axe FX II, but it wouldn't affect the GSP-1101.
 
Max Haze:

Thanks! You seem to be very familiar with a lot of devices I've never heard before!

I guess my ideal situation might involve something like the SMARTClock. I would like to be able to...
  1. See a blinking light on my pedalboard indicating tempo;
  2. Be able to select preset tempos for particular songs;
  3. Be able to tap a tempo to override the preset if desired;
  4. Have both the Axe FX II and the GSP-1101 (and any other future add-ons; e.g. Strymon, Eventide, or T.C. Electronic Flashback) stay in perfect synch;
  5. Keep the Axe FX II, the GSP-1101, and other future pedals, in my rack;
  6. NOT have to individually run lots of cables back-and-forth from my pedalboard to my rack, but have the EtherCon for the MFC-101 be the only wire between the pedalboard and the rack.
Now, I see how the SMARTClock would allow me to save preset tempos and send them to the Axe FX II via MIDI. And then I could pass those same messages out the Thru jack of the Axe FX II to the other devices.

But if I put it on the pedalboard, wouldn't I then have to run an extra MIDI cable back to the rack, apart from the EtherCon?

Or could it be plugged into the MIDI In on the back of the MFC-101, and thereby send the necessary CC# back to the Axe FX II that way, so that I don't need an extra cable?
 
Dr. Dipwad said:
Brian:

I think I already tried those settings on the Axe FX II and the GSP-1101. When I get home tonight I'll re-check.

I suppose I could change one footswitch on the MFC-101 to send MIDI CC#14 instead of the normal Tap Tempo. Then I could set the GSP-1101 and the Axe FX II to both expect Tap Tempo via MIDI, and they'd be in synch.

But there are two problems with that:

1. I think I'd lose the Tap Tempo light on the MFC-101, which I like;
2. I wouldn't be able to control them both using the rotary encoder on the front of the Axe FX II (for setting precise tempos for particular songs).
It would only affect the Axe FX II, but it wouldn't affect the GSP-1101.
Click to expand...

Well I know that I didn't have to lose my Tap Tempo light or change anything like that when I did it. The Tap I use for the Axe goes on to the TC. #2 would be true I'd assume.
 
Brian:

I verified that I can get the Tap Tempo on the MFC-101 working to control the GSP-1101, if I tap the Tap Tempo footswitch every time. (And, you're right; I didn't lose the light.)

But I also verified that, if I use the tempo button on the front of the Axe FX II, or if I use the rotary encoder to precisely set the tempo, the GSP-1101 doesn't "hear" the change.

I think I'm going to have to use something like the SMARTClock if I want to have "preset" tempos for particular songs, which I can send to both the Axe FX II and the GSP-1101.

Thanks for your input, though!
 
I am glad you at least got a part of it sorted out. Hopefully enough to get you through until you SMARTClock it up. :)
 
Dr. Dipwad said:
Max Haze:

Thanks! You seem to be very familiar with a lot of devices I've never heard before!

I guess my ideal situation might involve something like the SMARTClock. I would like to be able to...
  1. See a blinking light on my pedalboard indicating tempo;
  2. Be able to select preset tempos for particular songs;
  3. Be able to tap a tempo to override the preset if desired;
  4. Have both the Axe FX II and the GSP-1101 (and any other future add-ons; e.g. Strymon, Eventide, or T.C. Electronic Flashback) stay in perfect synch;
  5. Keep the Axe FX II, the GSP-1101, and other future pedals, in my rack;
  6. NOT have to individually run lots of cables back-and-forth from my pedalboard to my rack, but have the EtherCon for the MFC-101 be the only wire between the pedalboard and the rack.
Now, I see how the SMARTClock would allow me to save preset tempos and send them to the Axe FX II via MIDI. And then I could pass those same messages out the Thru jack of the Axe FX II to the other devices.

But if I put it on the pedalboard, wouldn't I then have to run an extra MIDI cable back to the rack, apart from the EtherCon?

Or could it be plugged into the MIDI In on the back of the MFC-101, and thereby send the necessary CC# back to the Axe FX II that way, so that I don't need an extra cable?
Click to expand...

As I see it you can plug it in to the MFC-101 midi in. You are able to set the GSP1101 to CC15 for tap tempo. I haven't got my GSP1101 at home so I can't check where you will find it. What firmware of the GSP1101 are you running on your unit?
 
There's another solution, a software called Bome midi translator, with that I think you can translate the sysex that the axe fx is sending into a cc message. You'll always need some sort of pc connected to both though
 
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