Generic Axe-FX vs Real Amp clips + the Joy of IRs.

All the A's sound better to me, more dynamic and 'alive' (bit more top end?) I suspect they are the real amp - however if they are the Axe-FX I would be very pleased and amazed.
 
merlin17 said:
Interesting, I have the impression the B clips have a bit more top end...
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With the exception of the third set of clips, that was what I heard as well. The differences were unmistakable to me when double-stops or chords were played, which would imply that the nonlinear behavior of the two systems is the cause of the difference. The system used for the "B" clips (except 3) appears to me more capable of preserving upper harmonics and transients when driven into saturation.

Of course, this is all out the freaking window if the clips are equally distributed between the two systems. :shock:
 
Prefer the alternates:

1A
2B
3A
4B
5A

The B clips like others have stated have a bit more top end bite, and sometimes a slight harshness or thinness to them...but it all depends on what was being played...sometimes it worked with the riff, sometimes it didn't...that's why my choices varied with the particular Riff...

Nice playing BTW
 
Ok, after Jay's comments I had a proper listen and taking recording 1 as an example it is true that the B version is consistent in producing the hi end through the piece. I also think this why I prefer the A version! I think i am associating the compression of the top end with a true valve amp sound. Its an effect that's pleasing to my ears.

When we (certainly I) talk about valve amps being 'dynamic' I think we actually mean the tonal changes that occur because of compression of parts of the spectrum. This is controllable by one's playing and gives the impression of the amp being a responsive instrument.

I'm now seriously interested to know which samples are which!
 
vinnieRice said:
Ok, after Jay's comments I had a proper listen and taking recording 1 as an example it is true that the B version is consistent in producing the hi end through the piece. I also think this why I prefer the A version! I think i am associating the compression of the top end with a true valve amp sound.
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That is just one type of tube amp sound, however. The tube amps I like most - including a Marshall 50w combo and a Super lead head that I owned - all preserve higher frequencies when driven slightly into nonlinearity as in the clips. The compressive effect I hear in the A clips (and in 3B) is exaggerated beyond the amount I prefer, and it affects a frequency range I would rather not be compressed. That's just personal preference, not speculation as to which is "real." It may well be that I prefer the Axe-Fx clips over those done with the "real" amp.

When we (certainly I) talk about valve amps being 'dynamic' I think we actually mean the tonal changes that occur because of compression of parts of the spectrum.
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Right. OTOH, the parts of the spectrum that get compressed are not necessarily the higher frequencies. Some amps compress lower frequencies more than higher frequencies.
 
I like testing my ears... so here's my choices and reasons/notes...

Listened to on semi-crappy desktop speakers at boring listening volume.

1a - axe-fx -- brightness, cleanliness, attack
1b - amp -- roundness, low-end woof, slight room

2a - amp -- room
2b - axe-fx -- bright attack

3a - roundness -- difficult to tell
3b - louder -- axe-fx -- cleanliness, bright pick attack again

4a - axe-fx -- just sounds like something similar i've gotten
4b - amp -- a bit more natural, wondering if it's the pick attack's release time more than the attack itself

5a - amp? -- ring in the background -- difficult to tell --
5b - again with the bright attack -- axe-fx -- still has that background ring though!


final thoughts...
damn... these things are close.
i have no idea for certain on any of my picks, but I did find that picking out the bright pick attack as being my main sticking point for it being one or the other was kind of odd. i don't know if that's just something that a mic/amp loses the sound of very easily, or if it's my speakers, or if i'm just way off.

in any case... they all sound good, Axe-Fx or not. -- no reason for me to select a preference between them as they would all sound just as good in a mix.
 
The jokes on all of you, these clips were both from the same Peavey Bass amp. :D


Actually, all the As were the Axe-FX, and all the Bs were the real amp and cab.

It's been interesting reading your thoughts and opinions, thanks for sharing them.

A = Axe-FX
B = Real amp and real cab.
 
mranonimouse said:
A = Axe-FX
B = Real amp and real cab.
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Good. Now Armin can tell us how obvious that was. :lol:
Seriously, I would argue that the differences that remain could be dialed out of the Axe-Fx, assuming your standard is the "real" amp.
 
Well... consider my ears fooled!
Thank you for the comparison -- one of the few that's been done really well, imho -- and major props for dialing them in so similarly!
 
:eek:

I prefered all of the A Clips. It was the fact they sounded fuller/deeper to me. The B Clips seemed a little topy for my liking.
 
mranonimouse said:
A = Axe-FX
B = Real amp and real cab.
Click to expand...

WOW!! I totally thought the other. Ha.

Cliff should SERIOUSLY think about putting this on the Fractal Sound Clips page. Have one be the real amp and one be the Axe-Fx with a link that tells them what it is after they listen to them. This is a hugely convincing arguement to the quality of the Axe-Fx that, IMO, should be displayed on Fractal's website. There's no better way to convert tube amp purists than to use a direct A/B comparison and this is the best that I've heard. Same guitar, same cabinet/mic and IR...the only thing different in the chain is the Axe-Fx modelling and it is DEAD ON.
 
godprobe said:
Well... consider my ears fooled!
Thank you for the comparison -- one of the few that's been done really well, imho -- and major props for dialing them in so similarly!
Click to expand...

Thanks. I just checked the saved amp settings to the default. Turns out I didn't use any of the advanced parameters, or indeed the odd ones on page 2. Just the ones that feature on the front of the real amp. Drive, Bass, Middle, Treble, Presence, Master.

It wasn't a stock JTM either.
 
BlueLotus said:
WOW!! I totally thought the other. Ha.

Cliff should SERIOUSLY think about putting this on the Fractal Sound Clips page. Have one be the real amp and one be the Axe-Fx with a link that tells them what it is after they listen to them. This is a hugely convincing arguement to the quality of the Axe-Fx that, IMO, should be displayed on Fractal's website. There's no better way to convert tube amp purists than to use a direct A/B comparison and this is the best that I've heard. Same guitar, same cabinet/mic and IR...the only thing different in the chain is the Axe-Fx modelling and it is DEAD ON.
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I'm flattered!!

I really think someone with better ears than mine, and a better listening environment, could do a much better job though, and get it dead on.

As I mentioned, I didn't use any of the advanced parameters to get this close, just Drive, Bass, Middle, Treble, Presence, and of course the most crucial step, using an IR of the cab and mic setup.
 
BlueLotus said:
This is a hugely convincing arguement to the quality of the Axe-Fx that, IMO, should be displayed on Fractal's website.
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While I agree that there is no question of the quality of the Axe-Fx, I will point out that, given the consensus here, you could make either argument: i.e., Axe-Fx is as good as or better than a tube amp, or modeling still can't quite get "there." The bottom line is that the real diehard tubers won't be convinced by any comparison of recorded sounds.

Some of us preferred the B clips. While the differences are quite subtle (and probably irrelevant in the absence of such a well-done A/B comparison), there are those who would argue that those differences are important nonetheless. It is clear that it is possible to make the distinction.

Rather than argue in favor of the "real" amp - which I preferred with only one exception - I'd say that, to get closer in the Axe-Fx, midrange, MV, and possibly gain in the amp block should be reduced as a first pass. I believe that some of the upper-mid compression in the Axe-Fx clips is due to a little more overdrive of the power amp section.

I'll add my compliments to the quality of the comparison. It appears that the IR you captured of the cab and mics is dead-on, and the amp sound is extremely close.
 
mranonimouse said:
BlueLotus said:
WOW!! I totally thought the other. Ha.

Cliff should SERIOUSLY think about putting this on the Fractal Sound Clips page. Have one be the real amp and one be the Axe-Fx with a link that tells them what it is after they listen to them. This is a hugely convincing arguement to the quality of the Axe-Fx that, IMO, should be displayed on Fractal's website. There's no better way to convert tube amp purists than to use a direct A/B comparison and this is the best that I've heard. Same guitar, same cabinet/mic and IR...the only thing different in the chain is the Axe-Fx modelling and it is DEAD ON.
Click to expand...

I'm flattered!!

I really think someone with better ears than mine, and a better listening environment, could do a much better job though, and get it dead on.

As I mentioned, I didn't use any of the advanced parameters to get this close, just Drive, Bass, Middle, Treble, Presence, and of course the most crucial step, using an IR of the cab and mic setup.
Click to expand...

Why I say it should be up there is because I've seen other companies do comparisons like this and they aren't as good, IMO. Can't remember the company, but I thought it was Roland or Nord that had a comparison of their leslie speaker emulation to a real leslie emulation and it wasn't nearly as close. Add to that, it wasn't a real Hammond B playing through both samples but the companie's emulation of one. If they can do that, then Cliff should take the cake.

Sure, it may not 100% convince the tube purists, but it is another example of the Axe-Fx's emulation of the real amps that cannot be proved with song clips or single guitar clips. I'm just saying that this is another tool to use in the arsenal of Fractal's clip page and frankly one of the best A/B clips that I've heard of any company. You won't see Line 6 or any other modelling company doing an A/B clip of a real amp vs their direct recorded tones and that alone will draw more modeller users to the Axe-Fx let alone convince the tube purists.

On the other hand, if even half of the tube purists pick A over B (which I think is very possible) then at least you've got half of them fooled regardless of the other 50% that claim to hear the difference. ;) The goal here is not to try and convince someone that the Axe-Fx is better than a tube amp. The goal is to convince them that if no one told you which was which, you'd probably never know and certainly not in a mix.
 
mranonimouse said:
A = Axe-FX
B = Real amp and real cab.
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Well I'm a very happy camper. I preferred all the 'A's'. This raises an interesting question; is the Axe-FX more like a valve amp than a real valve amp?

The Axe-FX Uber-valve :lol:
 
I dont know how much this really proves on fractals part. As you can see from earlier post, it took me about 2 seconds to pick out the B's as real amp. There was a certain air, punchiness, and lack of compression to them.

Funny thing is ive only been playing like 7 years and owned 5 tube amps.

But then again, the doctor said i can hear alot of frequencies most people cant.

I guess thats why i sent my axe-fx back, and put money down on a mark V....

weather a or b is better or not is up to taste, but i know i wanted the b sound, and couldnt get it with the axe.
~mike~
 
BlueLotus said:
mranonimouse said:
A = Axe-FX
B = Real amp and real cab.
Click to expand...

WOW!! I totally thought the other. Ha.

Cliff should SERIOUSLY think about putting this on the Fractal Sound Clips page. Have one be the real amp and one be the Axe-Fx with a link that tells them what it is after they listen to them. This is a hugely convincing arguement to the quality of the Axe-Fx that, IMO, should be displayed on Fractal's website. There's no better way to convert tube amp purists than to use a direct A/B comparison and this is the best that I've heard. Same guitar, same cabinet/mic and IR...the only thing different in the chain is the Axe-Fx modelling and it is DEAD ON.
Click to expand...

But its NOT dead on, i and about 3 other users were clearly able to tell the difference.

But yeahmaybe it would be a good test. as in.

Before you buy an axe.. click here.

If you liked a or could not tell difference... click buy.

if you preferred b, please see your local mesa dealer...

~mike~
 
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