General discussion about stage monitoring situations, and what you bring to your typical show

blastbeatdown

blastbeatdown

Inspired
So this could be a little embarrassing… but based on my observations it seems that many of you are in a much more professional situation in better venues than myself. A little backstory:
I play underground metal (deathcore, math metal etc) most of the time in very DIY venues. VFWs, Fire halls, etc. It’s very punk rock in that way. Here in New Jersey we’ve lost a lot of the mid tier venues that were great for original music and up and coming locals, dating way back even years before the pandemic. Playing heavy music that is sometimes viewed as violent hasn’t helped the cause - venues last for a little while and then no longer welcome shows like that.

Now to my point: Historically I’ve been lucky to have a quality PA at my shows. The wedge monitors are useless or non-existent, the drummer often doesn’t have a monitor. Being the only guitarist in the band, I’ve always brought two 4x12 guitar cabs. I never know when I need to fill the room with my own gear, so I have one cab behind me and the second cab is over on the bassists side, sometimes tilted towards the drummer a bit to hear me. I’m very jealous when I see a picture of someone that brings one wedge FRFR to hear themselves and then they let the FOH do the rest. Sure I’ve played some real concert halls - the Stone Pony, the House of Blues, mid sized places in New York and Philadelphia. But I never know what I’m walking into. How do you all deal with that? Am I that unlucky because I play hardcore? Should I invest in IEM’s for the whole band, even if the stage isn’t silent? What are your experiences especially in the DIY realm using modelers?
 
If the venue basically has no speakers then you need to bring your own, like you’re doing. IEM’s would mean the audience only hears drums.

Any gig, I find out what’s provided and what isn’t. Sometimes that means going to another band’s show and asking questions. I don’t take venue gigs that require us to also bring a full sound system, only for specials where I can charge for doing so.

Know what you’re walking into as much as possible. If the venue is clueless you have to adapt if you want the gig.
 
chris said:
If the venue basically has no speakers then you need to bring your own, like you’re doing. IEM’s would mean the audience only hears drums.

Any gig, I find out what’s provided and what isn’t. Sometimes that means going to another band’s show and asking questions. I don’t take venue gigs that require us to also bring a full sound system, only for specials where I can charge for doing so.

Know what you’re walking into as much as possible. If the venue is clueless you have to adapt if you want the gig.
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It’s not that pitiful, but it seems like it’s often a rented or borrowed PA that consists of two FOH monitors. I understand your point about IEMs what I meant is that it sucks to not only have to worry about the crowd hearing me but also my drummer.
 
You don't have to bring a 4x12 for monitoring tasks.
If the drummer only has to hear you to keep time, hear intros etc., then a simple B205D will do, or an 8" wedge (powered).
 
yek said:
You don't have to bring a 4x12 for monitoring tasks.
If the drummer only has to hear you to keep time, hear intros etc., then a simple B205D will do, or an 8" wedge.
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Thanks!! I think I’m gonna buy that. I forgot to mention that I’ve only gigged with tube amps. I’ve been using Axe Fx for home studio purposes for years but I plan to change that soon. It never occurred to me I could devote one of my outputs to a monitor just for my drummer. Brilliant. Thanks again.
 
la szum said:
What? 8" wedge for your drummer and you are playing "Metal??"

Even worse is the 5.25" woofer recommendation. Yikes.

Yeah, neither of those are gonna work. Not even a little. Not remotely powerful enough to
get the job done.
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What would you recommend? Yek is pretty smart. I don’t think playing metal matters much.. but wattage would. It could be a narrow range of frequency chock full of mids for all I care as long as he can hear it though his drums. Like I said above I’m used to a tube amp with 2 speaker outs -> two cabs. I’m not used to having so much routing capability. One going to a power amp and cab and another going to FOH was already world breaking in my mind. If I can use some sort of powered monitor to put next to my drummer I think that alone would solve some of my problems.
 
I have a passive FRFR but I would have to devote one of my power amp channels to that. I suppose I could buy a powered FRFR to put by the drummer but that seems excessive. It doesn’t need to sound as good as the mains.
 
I suggest 12'' monitor (powered): one personal for your guitar, one for drummer and the rest of the band (add as many as needed, but the more you have the harder is to have a "well sounding stage"; consider ear monitor if all instrument are miked). Also a mixer (a rack digital one will do, until AxeFx IV ;) ), and PA speaker (12'' + subw). 12'' to me is portable, powerful enough for metal and DIY venues. You can also/instead monitor yourself thru 4x12, if you use the axefx into poweramp. A second 4x12 as monitor is a waste of space and sounds...
 
Smilzo said:
I suggest 12'' monitor (powered): one personal for your guitar, one for drummer and the rest of the band (add as many as needed, but the more you have the harder is to have a "well sounding stage"; consider ear monitor if all instrument are miked). Also a mixer (a rack digital one will do, until AxeFx IV ;) ), and PA speaker (12'' + subw). 12'' to me is portable, powerful enough for metal and DIY venues. You can also/instead monitor yourself thru 4x12, if you use the axefx into poweramp. A second 4x12 as monitor is a waste of space and sounds...
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I like the idea of bringing one 4x12 to hear myself, and a second 4x12 if I’m convinced they are not micing my guitar at all lol. I also think bringing my own drum monitor just to run guitars through is brilliant.. can’t believe I didn’t think of that. If I get to the venue and they have a great FOH that I can run into direct, great - one 4x12 stays in the trailer.
 
For a top tier venue I could just use the wedge/drum monitor to keep in front of me and perhaps not have a cab onstage at all.
 
blastbeatdown said:
I like the idea of bringing one 4x12 to hear myself, and a second 4x12 if I’m convinced they are not micing my guitar at all lol.
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You can go [>fx pre>amp emulation>fx post] into poweramp>4x12. Then use a parallel row from fx_post [>cabs], and go into MIXER/PA. No need for mic any real cab. Let the 4x12 be there for feel/habits, and PA address the audience (even if the sound is not the same you hear from your cab, but you can select a cab close enough...).
In a top tier venues use monitor and PA of the venues. You should provide service with your line level, as you do in DIY. But pro's will do a better job, I hope... ;)
 
Smilzo said:
You can go [>fx pre>amp emulation>fx post] into poweramp>4x12. Then use a parallel row from fx_post [>cabs], and go into MIXER/PA. No need for mic any real cab. Let the 4x12 be there for feel/habits, and PA address the audience (even if the sound is not the same you hear from your cab, but you can select a cab close enough...).
In a top tier venues use monitor and PA of the venues. You should provide service with your line level, as you do in DIY. But pro's will do a better job, I hope... ;)
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Yeah I’m not a rookie, I used the term “micing” here because sometimes the PA is small and only runs vocals in a small room. But I appreciate it ✊🏻
 
I did the DIY circuit for 5 years. PA, no PA, wedges were rare. We were extremely loud, our drummer was insanely tight, and our band leader basically just needed some vocals in the (one) monitor and we were all set.

Since going digital, I know the main venues in town have backlines and I would at least rent a power amp for a gig but likely buy one to be safe re: monitoring away from the wedge.
 
Budda said:
I did the DIY circuit for 5 years. PA, no PA, wedges were rare. We were extremely loud, our drummer was insanely tight, and our band leader basically just needed some vocals in the (one) monitor and we were all set.

Since going digital, I know the main venues in town have backlines and I would at least rent a power amp for a gig but likely buy one to be safe re: monitoring away from the wedge.
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The power amp I use is a Matrix gt1600fx. It’s overkill for most situations, but again, being the only guitarist in the band and playing shitty venues at times, I don’t wanna get smoked by the other bands that have two guitarists. I used to run two tube heads with an A/B/Y switch. I haven’t worked out exactly how to duplicate this approach on the Fractal yet (volume or panning blocks? or something else?) but I don’t know if I feel like I need to anymore. I feel confident not needing to “make up” for not having a second guitar player. But I was definitely wondering what modern players are using to hear themselves and each other in less than ideal environments.
 
Dont worry about “getting smoked” just make your band sound like a unit and not individuals. As the loudest band on most bills, i can tell you louder doesnt mean better (though it is fun).

Dial in the band to sound like a band and write great songs that are performed incredibly well imo.

The matrix is overkill if you turn it up too much lol.
 
la szum said:
If you go silent stage and use IEMs we are all dead and the times are truly Apocalyptic. Just keep that in mind. :)
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Silent stage was never an option lol. Sometimes a stage isn’t an option 🤣🤣 set us up on the floor and watch kids flip tables and punch holes in the walls. We aren’t getting invited back anyway.
 
blastbeatdown said:
So this could be a little embarrassing… but based on my observations it seems that many of you are in a much more professional situation in better venues than myself. A little backstory:
I play underground metal (deathcore, math metal etc) most of the time in very DIY venues. VFWs, Fire halls, etc. It’s very punk rock in that way. Here in New Jersey we’ve lost a lot of the mid tier venues that were great for original music and up and coming locals, dating way back even years before the pandemic. Playing heavy music that is sometimes viewed as violent hasn’t helped the cause - venues last for a little while and then no longer welcome shows like that.

Now to my point: Historically I’ve been lucky to have a quality PA at my shows. The wedge monitors are useless or non-existent, the drummer often doesn’t have a monitor. Being the only guitarist in the band, I’ve always brought two 4x12 guitar cabs. I never know when I need to fill the room with my own gear, so I have one cab behind me and the second cab is over on the bassists side, sometimes tilted towards the drummer a bit to hear me. I’m very jealous when I see a picture of someone that brings one wedge FRFR to hear themselves and then they let the FOH do the rest. Sure I’ve played some real concert halls - the Stone Pony, the House of Blues, mid sized places in New York and Philadelphia. But I never know what I’m walking into. How do you all deal with that? Am I that unlucky because I play hardcore? Should I invest in IEM’s for the whole band, even if the stage isn’t silent? What are your experiences especially in the DIY realm using modelers?
Click to expand...
I play weird math heavy alt shit in a three piece and I have the same issues.
We just got a cheap IEM setup for like $300. phenyx I think. A little static occasionally but for the money it’s a total game changer. Mostly for what it’ll do for the vocals, which changes the whole dynamic of trying to out volume eachother, monitor howl and cymbal crashes in your face.
Replace the earbuds with one of those $50 China made deals, make your own Homeade molds and then prepare to start saving for a better closed loop system and custom made in ears. It’s pretty easy and not that expensive to do your one monitor mix at shows. Just holla at the sound guy before you show up to coordinate/communicate
It’s a wonderful time to play music!!
I’m at work but I’ll link some vids later about the brands and do it yourself stuff.
 
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