Game changer for dialing presets!

I'm not sure if this is warranted in this discussion but I wanted to drop this link here: https://mathaudio.com/why-room-eq.htm
I'm using this for years and absolutely happy with the results, would like to hear if any of you have similar experience - but the point I was going to make is in this section of the page:
Pre-echo (pre-ringing, pre-reverberation) is a kind of distortion which is present in the sound of a lot of modern digital room correction systems
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I've heard somewhere that "real-time" correction systems always have it - no idea if this is true or not. WDYT?
 
GlennO said:
Somebody really needs to combine a room correction dsp module like this with an audio interface to avoid the extra a/d/a conversions.
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I used SpectraFoo (Metric Halo Labs) for years to check mixes, mastering, room correction, time align monitors.

There's a transfer function that could probably be used with SpectraFoo frequency sweep generator to load an IR for room EQ correction into an audio interface that has the DSP for it.

I have a MH Labs ULN-8 that I'm sure could do this without breaking a sweat.

Unfortunately SpectraFoo hasn't been updated in a long time, so I mothballed it until it's modernized. The guys at MH say they are working on it.
 
Hi rzjd
Australia. I’m happy to wait, to buy it from a supplier I trust.
Thanks
Pauly

rzjd said:
just curious. back order where? IK has them on their website. Ordered mine online and the bonus was shipping was free, not sure why but I'll take it.
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GlennO said:
It would be great if there was an Output EQ option that allowed you to specify an IR.
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I wish you could do this too! :)

I have a DBX VENU360 that I used with a Sonarworks calbrated mic. I used to have it in my rack with the AxeFX3 and just kept it on the setting I got at home with my CLR's, which seemed to be great for the venues I play. I ended up Tone Matching the VENU360 into a IR block which I use on every preset now. It freed up space in my 4ru rack for a power conditioner.
 
Pagzy said:
I wish you could do this too! :)

I have a DBX VENU360 that I used with a Sonarworks calbrated mic. I used to have it in my rack with the AxeFX3 and just kept it on the setting I got at home with my CLR's, which seemed to be great for the venues I play. I ended up Tone Matching the VENU360 into a IR block which I use on every preset now. It freed up space in my 4ru rack for a power conditioner.
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Stupid question...was this calibration going to FOH or to your CLR at gigs?
 
Dirty145 said:
So I just took delivery of this unit and what a difference. Initially, I thought it was only for studio monitors, but it can be used for FRFR systems as well. I’m using it with my QSC 12.2. Took about 10 minutes to do the readings and I was ready to rock. I run my fractal into the box and then the box into my QSC. Turn on the correction and it was night and day. Basically takes the room out of the equation and the bonus is that you don’t need to be in a DAW or use software to apply the correction. I highly recommend checking this out!

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Thank you very much for this hint.
Ordered and use it esp. with my HiFi/Stereo equipment. Works very well and is worth every Euro.
btw: I also measured my “studio monitors” and used the measurements for eq-ing with parametric hardware … also works fine.
Greetings from bavaria
 
warlockII said:
Would you mind sharing your IR? I'd be interested to hear it's effect on the CLR's in my bedroom.
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I'm at work at the moment man, I'll see if I can upload it later tonight. I'd actually be interested to know if it works for other CLR users in different rooms.
It doesn't tweak too much EQ... but it makes music from the laptop/USB Input sound awesome through them for me too. I use my CLR's as PA speakers for certain gigs as well.
 
warlockII said:
Stupid question...was this calibration going to FOH or to your CLR at gigs?
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It’s important to remember that this eq correction is based solely on the room that you take the measurements in and with the speaker and/or monitors in that exact position. You wouldn’t want to apply this same eq correction in a different room, as the frequency response would be completely different. Where this product shines is that it allows you to get a flat response in your studio or rehearsal room, so that you can dial in your patches while hearing things correctly. Then you can feel confident that your presets will translate well to other systems when you are performing.
 
Dirty145 said:
It’s important to remember that this eq correction is based solely on the room that you take the measurements in and with the speaker and/or monitors in that exact position. You wouldn’t want to apply this same eq correction in a different room, as the frequency response would be completely different. Where this product shines is that it allows you to get a flat response in your studio or rehearsal room, so that you can dial in your patches while hearing things correctly. Then you can feel confident that your presets will translate well to other systems when you are performing.
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That's what I thought, but the person says it sounds great at gigs as well so I'm intrigued to see what changes are dialed in.
 
Hi Dirty145,

I’d suggest (depending on the proximity of the calibration mic when calibrating), the dodgy frequency response of the speakers is also being lessened. Frfr speakers are renowned for being crap compared to good studio monitors, so this technique of frequency response and phase adjustment may tame some of them. That’s not to say that a calibration taken in one room would be good in any other room, but to say that speakers that are inaccurate, and calibrated in one room, may still benefit from this units calibration in another room.

Thanks
Pauly

Dirty145 said:
It’s important to remember that this eq correction is based solely on the room that you take the measurements in and with the speaker and/or monitors in that exact position. You wouldn’t want to apply this same eq correction in a different room, as the frequency response would be completely different. Where this product shines is that it allows you to get a flat response in your studio or rehearsal room, so that you can dial in your patches while hearing things correctly. Then you can feel confident that your presets will translate well to other systems when you are performing.
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warlockII said:
Would you mind sharing your IR? I'd be interested to hear it's effect on the CLR's in my bedroom.
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Here ya go mate, my DBX VENU360 to CLR flat EQ calibration IR attached!

For a bit of info the VENU360 calibration was taken with two active CLR Neo MkII's, about 2.8m apart (a bit over 9ft), on speaker stands with the coaxial tweeter approximately 1.75m high (nearly 6ft), (they are close to some walls so you might have some different bass response, you could tweak to taste though). I used a calibrated Sonarworks mic the same distance out in front of the speakers as they are apart, and again a third of the way closer as per the VENU360's AutoEQ wizard. I can't remember if I did the 3rd and 4th position. I also added the calibration curve of the mic because the AutoEQ would have flattened that out as well.

Hope it works for you or someone out there! 🤘
 

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This is pretty interesting, thanks for flagging it up, OP.

I run Sound ID reference for my monitors in my DAW already (so not entirely relevant to the guitar community) which also works with a calibrated mic as with this, but focuses on getting your monitors accurate at your listening position for mixing, but it also has profiles for headphones (which is based on a profile - not an individual calibration) - I'm honestly not sure if this would overlap what the Arc does or if the two could work in concert together.

Either way, a hardware solution does seem pretty cool. Will look into it more!

I assume both technologies are ripe for being bought out or licensed by a monitor manufacturer who can offer it all in one box.

EDIT: for anyone interested:

https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-reference
 
Dirty145 said:
It’s important to remember that this eq correction is based solely on the room that you take the measurements in and with the speaker and/or monitors in that exact position. You wouldn’t want to apply this same eq correction in a different room, as the frequency response would be completely different. Where this product shines is that it allows you to get a flat response in your studio or rehearsal room, so that you can dial in your patches while hearing things correctly. Then you can feel confident that your presets will translate well to other systems when you are performing.
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This is what I originally intended to do with the VENU360 and the AxeFX3, get a flat response in any room/venue. In reality, setting up the mic and doing the EQ sweeps isn't always possible, depending of course how big an artist you are, and how many other bands on the bill and where your set is in the lineup. Like @Dirty145 says, in the end I figured if I can get it calibrated in one room, sort my sounds using that, then they would translate to any well EQ'd PA system. On the other hand if I use my CLR's for FOH duties I would use the VENU360 to AutoEQ the room/venue.
 
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pauly said:
Hi Dirty145,

I’d suggest (depending on the proximity of the calibration mic when calibrating), the dodgy frequency response of the speakers is also being lessened. Frfr speakers are renowned for being crap compared to good studio monitors, so this technique of frequency response and phase adjustment may tame some of them. That’s not to say that a calibration taken in one room would be good in any other room, but to say that speakers that are inaccurate, and calibrated in one room, may still benefit from this units calibration in another room.

Thanks
Pauly
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I can’t say for sure, but in my personal opinion and for live use, dialing in your preset on an FRFR such as the QSC 12.2 is going to be more representative of what you would be playing through at a live gig (as opposed to studio monitors). As a test, I ran the frequency analyzer using both the “Default” and “Studio Monitor” DSP settings on the back of the QSC. As expected the resulting correction curves were very different. If I recall the “Default” setting needed almost a 12db CUT in the low frequency to get close to the flat line. On the “Studio Monitor” setting it needed around a 6-8db BOOST to get close to flat. Those were the corrections needed in my particular room and at that exact listening position. If I were to take the Arc with me to a gig and apply that same correction on stage, I could be dealing with some serious boominess or a razor thin sound depending on the room. My suggestion is to utilize the Arc where you dial in patches and then trust them to translate at a gig to your monitor and FOH.
 
Dirty145 said:
I can’t say for sure, but in my personal opinion and for live use, dialing in your preset on an FRFR such as the QSC 12.2 is going to be more representative of what you would be playing through at a live gig (as opposed to studio monitors). As a test, I ran the frequency analyzer using both the “Default” and “Studio Monitor” DSP settings on the back of the QSC. As expected the resulting correction curves were very different. If I recall the “Default” setting needed almost a 12db CUT in the low frequency to get close to the flat line. On the “Studio Monitor” setting it needed around a 6-8db BOOST to get close to flat. Those were the corrections needed in my particular room and at that exact listening position. If I were to take the Arc with me to a gig and apply that same correction on stage, I could be dealing with some serious boominess or a razor thin sound depending on the room. My suggestion is to utilize the Arc where you dial in patches and then trust them to translate at a gig to your monitor and FOH.
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Yeah for sure, a lot of PA speakers will have a response that isn't flat compared to a quality FRFR. So if that QSC 12.2 is your personal monitor on stage you'd keep using the Arc with it, or you can try to create an IR to use straight from the AxeFX3 to the QSC, like I did with the VENU360.
IMO if you don't use the Arc inline or create an IR to replace it there will be no correction and your sounds will be even worse in a new room straight out to the QSC. Like @pauly said, I think correction done to a speaker in any room would be better than none at all...
 
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