Game changer for dialing presets!

[rzjd]

There is 1ms latency in natural mode using the hardware which is preferred Linear phase mode does add some latency. Regardless, it works well. I've been using ARC for years and its great now that you dont have to engage any plug ins, formerly i was using ARC 3 snd i would use a rack PEQ to manually match what ARC was showing me. As Glenn stated, the point is now its in a hardware format.

 

[Dirty145]

question for you guys. I know room treatment is always ideal but let's say that's just not gonna happen. Would these software and/or hardware corrective eq solutions make a big improvement overall? I get that some are used within DAW's but for overall live playing in my space is what I'd be interested in. I have a large open space but i'm not about to start putting panels everywhere.

I have a newly finished studio in my basement. I currently have zero treatments and I noticed a huge difference once I ran through the arc hardware into my QSC. When I get back down there, I’ll show some pics of the response graphs along with the correction EQ. I ran the analyzer on both the studio monitor setting on my QSC, as well as the Default setting.

 

[FedeRock]

IK says 1.5 msecs. That's pretty good, but the various sources of latency add up. That 1.5 msecs could be eliminated if the room correction was done at a point in the signal chain where the signal is already digital.

Thanks

 

[Jarick]

I’m very intrigued. Being able to run DSP correction via hardware with 1ms latency for $300 is a solid deal imo. That lets you keep the headphone output flat too which is something that bugs me about Sonarworks. Anyways yeah if this was built into an audio interface that would be killer but I may have to pick this up.

 

[mr_fender]

The big limitation with EQ room correction is it is fixed to listening position in the room. The EQ solution is typically only valid for one specific listening position in the room. That's fine if you always sit in the same exact spot while tracking or mixing, but if you move around the room, the correction will no longer be valid. The difference when moving between a node and anti-node location in the room can be very noticeable depending on the room, particularly at lower frequencies where the wavelength is longer. Just something to keep in mind. EQ correction can help a ton in some cases, but nothing is free. There's always a trade off.

 

[GlennO]

The big limitation with EQ room correction is it is fixed to listening position in the room. The EQ solution is typically only valid for one specific listening position in the room. That's fine if you always sit in the same exact spot while tracking or mixing, but if you move around the room, the correction will no longer be valid. The difference when moving between a node and anti-node location in the room can be very noticeable depending on the room, particularly at lower frequencies where the wavelength is longer. Just something to keep in mind. EQ correction can help a ton in some cases, but nothing is free. There's always a trade off.

True, but almost all studios are already limited to a single, small, sweet spot for mixing, as dictated by the placement of near field monitors.

One nice thing about room correction tools, including hardware solutions like Arc Studio and MiniDSP Flex, is you can define presets, so you can do different corrective EQs for different listening positions, and select the one for your current position in the room. That can be useful for cases other than mixing.

 

[laxu]

Genelec combines the correction, interface, and speaker on all of their newer models. Pretty sleek.

Sleek but the latency is like 4ms which is IMO way too much for something like this. I wish they upgraded it to something closer to 1ms.

BTW you can use the IR Player block for IR room correction in the Axe-Fx 3 as well. Of course getting the IRs is more involved as e.g Sonarworks or the IK ARC won't give easy access to them.

 

[laxu]

question for you guys. I know room treatment is always ideal but let's say that's just not gonna happen. Would these software and/or hardware corrective eq solutions make a big improvement overall? I get that some are used within DAW's but for overall live playing in my space is what I'd be interested in. I have a large open space but i'm not about to start putting panels everywhere.

It depends heavily on what the starting point looks like. For that you need to measure with a measurement mic and Room EQ Wizard, Sonarworks Reference ID (buggy, don't recommend) or the IK ARC stuff.

In my previous apartment where for aesthetic reasons the only "room treatment" was things like bookshelves, rugs etc. There was a huge boost around 130 Hz, and some smaller issues in other frequencies. Using room correction via Sonarworks helped with that a lot.

In my current apartment the room where my Genelec M040 (similar size to the 8040) studio monitors are is surprisingly more neutral. Sonarworks correction didn't do a whole lot here, the little EQ switches on the back of my Genelecs were enough.

For headphones, correction can be beneficial. My Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros have excessive highs, so correction works well to counter that. I use them as my "everyday listening" headphones because they are very comfortable. The Sennheiser HD6XX I use with my Axe-Fx 3 are far more flat out of the box so correction has only small effects.

Proper room treatment will always be better but software or even EQ correction can help reduce or remove the most glaring issues.

 

[Paul Bradshaw]

It depends heavily on what the starting point looks like. For that you need to measure with a measurement mic and Room EQ Wizard, Sonarworks Reference ID (buggy, don't recommend) or the IK ARC stuff.

In my previous apartment where for aesthetic reasons the only "room treatment" was things like bookshelves, rugs etc. There was a huge boost around 130 Hz, and some smaller issues in other frequencies. Using room correction via Sonarworks helped with that a lot.

In my current apartment the room where my Genelec M040 (similar size to the 8040) studio monitors are is surprisingly more neutral. Sonarworks correction didn't do a whole lot here, the little EQ switches on the back of my Genelecs were enough.

For headphones, correction can be beneficial. My Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros have excessive highs, so correction works well to counter that. I use them as my "everyday listening" headphones because they are very comfortable. The Sennheiser HD6XX I use with my Axe-Fx 3 are far more flat out of the box so correction has only small effects.

Proper room treatment will always be better but software or even EQ correction can help reduce or remove the most glaring issues.

i have exactly that issue in my current room , there's a huge boost around 130hz (i think in part due to the big desk i have) , and there's some dips below 100hz , i ended up using REW and using EQ to fix that issue , it's a small cube style room with windows as well which doesn't help,
i always leave the door open too, otherwise that build up is even worse

i also mix/produce retrowave style electronic music, so adding a bit of room treatment definitely helped as well, but the huge resonance from the desk, is still the main issue, which is what EQ is correcting for , i'd say it definitely helps in dialing in tones for playing out live etc..
and it also makes a really nice bit of difference to the overall listening experience of music etc..in said room

if money is a concern, REW software is free, you can buy a measuring mic for under 50 euros (i use a Behringer ECM8000) just need a stand to go with it, and then you can apply EQ via your DAW and if you like with EQO for system wide

Julian Krause made a really good video on how to do it, in case anyone is interested

 

[nangillala]

BTW you can use the IR Player block for IR room correction in the Axe-Fx 3 as well. Of course getting the IRs is more involved as e.g Sonarworks or the IK ARC won't give easy access to them.

Now I'm interested. Do you know of any how-to for this? Room correction is totally new for me, so it would be great if I could start out with a cheap mic, cheap (/free?) software and use the IR loader of the Axe.

 

[la szum]

IK says 1.5 msecs. That's pretty good, but the various sources of latency add up. That 1.5 msecs could be eliminated if the room correction was done at a point in the signal chain where the signal is already digital.

 

[GlennO]

BTW you can use the IR Player block for IR room correction in the Axe-Fx 3 as well. Of course getting the IRs is more involved as e.g Sonarworks or the IK ARC won't give easy access to them.

I've done that in the past. Shoot the room with REW and export an IR. The problem, and I think you and I have discussed this before, is there's no way to apply it globally. It would be great if there was an Output EQ option that allowed you to specify an IR. Instead, the correction has to be done in every preset you'll ever use. I always run into a situation where I load a preset that doesn't have the correction and I have to stop what I'm doing and load the correction (for multiple outputs to handle both direct monitored guitar and computer playback), which is a real workflow killer. Solving that problem is the appeal to me of a solution like the Arc Studio.

 

[strabes]

question for you guys. I know room treatment is always ideal but let's say that's just not gonna happen. Would these software and/or hardware corrective eq solutions make a big improvement overall? I get that some are used within DAW's but for overall live playing in my space is what I'd be interested in. I have a large open space but i'm not about to start putting panels everywhere.

As others have said, correction software cannot fix long decay times, distortion due to reflections, flutter echo, nulls caused by room modes, etc. If there’s a null at 70hz due to an 8-9ft ceiling (very common in residential rooms), boosting 70hz will also boost the reflections which obviously will not fix the issue. Getting reverb times down and reducing the strength of room modes as much as possible are crucial for software correction to have the most impact.

Also, if you’re not mixing or dialing in sounds for recording or live performance then I wouldn’t bother because your sounds don’t need to translate anywhere else.

 

[Chewie5150]

As others have said, correction software cannot fix long decay times, distortion due to reflections, flutter echo, nulls caused by room modes, etc. If there’s a null at 70hz due to an 8-9ft ceiling (very common in residential rooms), boosting 70hz will also boost the reflections which obviously will not fix the issue. Getting reverb times down and reducing the strength of room modes as much as possible are crucial for software correction to have the most impact.

Also, if you’re not mixing or dialing in sounds for recording or live performance then I wouldn’t bother because your sounds don’t need to translate anywhere else.

yeah that makes total sense. For general purposes when i'm playing/listening it's actually not to bad in here. No real bad reflections. I think where I'd benefit more with corrective eq'ing would be for when I'm mixing projects which isn't all that often

 

[rjones5766]

I picked this up last week for my home studio really not expecting much. I did the quick profile (not enough time to complete the full profile) with the included mic and downloaded into the hardware which took about 10 minutes total. Honestly, I was absolutely blown away by the results - very impressed with the processed/EQ'd sound. It's VERY impressive for the price. Having the device between my interface and monitors means it's a fire and forget solution for everything from practicing, recording, mixing, or even casual music listening.

 

[Shredology]

Just got mine Friday. Amazing what it did to my 2-CLR and sub set-up. Highly recommended

 

[pauly]

I’m on a back order list for this unit. One large format pair of (old) monitors I have sound fantastic, but could use some tidying up. This unit may be exactly what I’m after!
Thanks
Pauly

 

[laxu]

I've done that in the past. Shoot the room with REW and export an IR. The problem, and I think you and I have discussed this before, is there's no way to apply it globally. It would be great if there was an Output EQ option that allowed you to specify an IR. Instead, the correction has to be done in every preset you'll ever use. I always run into a situation where I load a preset that doesn't have the correction and I have to stop what I'm doing and load the correction (for multiple outputs to handle both direct monitored guitar and computer playback), which is a real workflow killer. Solving that problem is the appeal to me of a solution like the Arc Studio.

I have just built my presets around having an IR Loader block for Out1, I mainly use it for headphone correction. Then I just load the correction from the library.

I do agree a global IR option would be nice...but fat chance of Fractal providing it since it's a pretty niche feature.

The ARC does not interest me because I don't trust IK Multimedia to make sensible user experiences, everything they make is kinda crappy to use IMO. Then you have the extra latency to deal with, and for room or headphones correction honestly the parametric or graphic EQ will solve the major pain points well enough.

 

[laxu]

Now I'm interested. Do you know of any how-to for this? Room correction is totally new for me, so it would be great if I could start out with a cheap mic, cheap (/free?) software and use the IR loader of the Axe.

I used Sonarworks to measure my room, then loaded the correction into their VST plugin, loaded sweeps to a track and then made an IR. You can find tutorials how to make IRs. Not sure how you would do this with other tools.

I have a hard time recommending Sonarworks because it's been so buggy for me that I requested a refund. Kept crashing every time I turned on my Axe-Fx 3 for example.

 

[rzjd]

I’m on a back order list for this unit. One large format pair of (old) monitors I have sound fantastic, but could use some tidying up. This unit may be exactly what I’m after!
Thanks
Pauly

just curious. back order where? IK has them on their website. Ordered mine online and the bonus was shipping was free, not sure why but I'll take it.