G3 Recto sound just like a Mesa Roadster!

These clips should sound different for many reasons and I'm surprised how close they are in spite of everything.

1) The Recto in the Axe-Fx is a normal Dual Rectifier while that second clip is a Roadster. Here's a real life comparison in case you're interested:



2) Roadster clip was played with a different guitar in E tuning. Axe-Fx clip was recorded with my PRS in D standard and I just played the riff higher on the neck.

3) I have a different muting style to Irotlas (who recorded the Roadster clip) and this especially is where you'll notice the different guitars as well.

As far as the comparison is concerned the Roadster clip is going through the same IRs which are actually the stock CK IRs on every Axe-Fx. It's the slave output signal of the Roadster. To those who don't know what that means: there's a slave output on the Roadster that includes tube amp coloration and speaker coloration when the head is connected to the cabinet. This way you can get a signal out that should be comparable to the signal that comes out of the amp block in the Axe-Fx. That signal is perfect for these comparisons.

Obviously I measured the difference between these clips and it's not 100% but neither are real amps when compared to one another. Compare this to Cliff's Dual Recto and I'm sure you can't tell the difference. The low end is different which has a lot to do with how you set the speaker resonances which by the way are stock in this clip. There's a middle peak that I get around 600hz from the Roadster that's not in the Axe-Fx but it's around 2-3dB.

To me personally it's so close with almost no tweaking that I'm extremely happy. After making the clip I turned the presence all the way to 0 (like Petrucci did) and it was even closer.
 
JJunkie said:
Clark, do you think you can get that bassy mute that Irotlas had with the real amp?
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Well I experimented with the CRUNCH and DYNAMICS controls that definitely affected those things. In the end I started preferring to just leave them in their stock positions even though I might've been closer after tweaking them a bit. In this case the Roadster may be a bit less dynamic and the crunch parameter added some of that growl to the middle frequencies that the Roadster clip has.

That bassy mute has a lot to do with the speaker resonance page which I'm trying to get just right. I can do a side by side match with the Mark IV we have at the studio but we don't have a Recto so the low resonances are hard to find.
 
I really wonder how people can say those two clips sound close! They are VERY different!

But since that's not what Clark wanted to show here, who gives a damn! That Rectifier sound is really good!
 
axifist said:
I really wonder how people can say those two clips sound close! They are VERY different!

But since that's not what Clark wanted to show here, who gives a damn! That Rectifier sound is really good!
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I think people need a better understanding of what they're actually hearing in these clips. The Roadster slave output signal gets it's speaker resonances from the cab that was handling the load for that clip which in this case was a cheap Harley Benton 4x12 cab if I remember correctly. Tweak your speaker resonance page with the Axe-Fx to see how drastic changes on that page really are. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't think that the low end on the Roadster clip is the way the Axe-Fx should sound. If you want that type of sound then you should simply experiment with the speaker resonances and that will most likely take you there.

IMO both sound like Rectifiers. Usually when I create blind folder polls about these things the majority of people get it wrong... :)

Well at least it's a lot closer than the difference between the Haggerty's video. :)
 
Sounds great Clark! Do you usually set your master around 2 for all amps model (appart from the Non master volume models)? It seems pretty low but I guess you are after a preamp distortion with a recto model right? I guess it's different when using a more British type of amp!
 
dupere11497 said:
Sounds great Clark! Do you usually set your master around 2 for all amps model (appart from the Non master volume models)? It seems pretty low but I guess you are after a preamp distortion with a recto model right? I guess it's different when using a more British type of amp!
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Well if you're asking me then for most amps I have the master around 5 but in order to make the Rectifiers sound what I consider to be "right" it has to be way lower than the default setting. I think I had it around 1 at some point even. Same goes for the Mark series amps. This is what I measured and compared side by side with a real Mark IV. Master on 2.00 for the USA Lead is pretty much identical to the real amp master output on 3 which is f.ex. how John Petrucci uses his Mark IVs. The master control changes the sound of the Mesa sims drastically. If you've owned a real Mesa you'll know that the master volume is not there for drive. You turn it up and usually 0-1 is dead silent but after that it's louder than any other amp in the room. :lol Nothing good really happens after 3-4 or so on the real amps. So my advice would be to have the master at 2.00 for Mesa amp sims.
 
Clark Kent said:
These clips should sound different for many reasons and I'm surprised how close they are in spite of everything.

1) The Recto in the Axe-Fx is a normal Dual Rectifier while that second clip is a Roadster. Here's a real life comparison in case you're interested:



2) Roadster clip was played with a different guitar in E tuning. Axe-Fx clip was recorded with my PRS in D standard and I just played the riff higher on the neck.

3) I have a different muting style to Irotlas (who recorded the Roadster clip) and this especially is where you'll notice the different guitars as well.

As far as the comparison is concerned the Roadster clip is going through the same IRs which are actually the stock CK IRs on every Axe-Fx. It's the slave output signal of the Roadster. To those who don't know what that means: there's a slave output on the Roadster that includes tube amp coloration and speaker coloration when the head is connected to the cabinet. This way you can get a signal out that should be comparable to the signal that comes out of the amp block in the Axe-Fx. That signal is perfect for these comparisons.

Obviously I measured the difference between these clips and it's not 100% but neither are real amps when compared to one another. Compare this to Cliff's Dual Recto and I'm sure you can't tell the difference. The low end is different which has a lot to do with how you set the speaker resonances which by the way are stock in this clip. There's a middle peak that I get around 600hz from the Roadster that's not in the Axe-Fx but it's around 2-3dB.

To me personally it's so close with almost no tweaking that I'm extremely happy. After making the clip I turned the presence all the way to 0 (like Petrucci did) and it was even closer.
Click to expand...


Not to derail this thread, since I love all this talk, but I'm curious about the Uberschall. That was another one I felt has lacked quite a bit, compared to the other Bogners that I feel are much more pleasing to dial in. The Uberschall model to me has never been quite there to the real life amp. I've played that amp many times, and never felt it was as hard to pull great sounds out of it while the Model is so much more touchy with the cabinet choice, and you have to dial in more extreme settings to get something usable. Have you played around with the newer FW18 model much? Thanks!
 
Clark Kent said:
I think people need a better understanding of what they're actually hearing in these clips. The Roadster slave output signal gets it's speaker resonances from the cab that was handling the load for that clip which in this case was a cheap Harley Benton 4x12 cab if I remember correctly. Tweak your speaker resonance page with the Axe-Fx to see how drastic changes on that page really are. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't think that the low end on the Roadster clip is the way the Axe-Fx should sound. If you want that type of sound then you should simply experiment with the speaker resonances and that will most likely take you there.

IMO both sound like Rectifiers. Usually when I create blind folder polls about these things the majority of people get it wrong... :)

Well at least it's a lot closer than the difference between the Haggerty's video. :)
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Hey man - I wasn't trying to poop in anybody's soup. Once again - I don't think either sound bad or one sounds worse than the other. I think anybody who has been striving for guitar tone knows that amp tones differ (sometimes even wildly) from amp to amp within the same model, much less different guitars/tunings/etc.

Still though - I wasn't the one making the assertion that the "G3 recto sounds just like a mesa roadster", which is exactly what your title says. It is a hyperbole at best, and foolish hype at it's worst.
 
indeloon85 said:
Not to derail this thread, since I love all this talk, but I'm curious about the Uberschall. That was another one I felt has lacked quite a bit, compared to the other Bogners that I feel are much more pleasing to dial in. The Uberschall model to me has never been quite there to the real life amp. I've played that amp many times, and never felt it was as hard to pull great sounds out of it while the Model is so much more touchy with the cabinet choice, and you have to dial in more extreme settings to get something usable. Have you played around with the newer FW18 model much? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I don't think the Uberschall is G3 yet.
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
Hey man - I wasn't trying to poop in anybody's soup. Once again - I don't think either sound bad or one sounds worse than the other. I think anybody who has been striving for guitar tone knows that amp tones differ (sometimes even wildly) from amp to amp within the same model, much less different guitars/tunings/etc.

Still though - I wasn't the one making the assertion that the "G3 recto sounds just like a mesa roadster", which is exactly what your title says. It is a hyperbole at best, and foolish hype at it's worst.
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90% of the difference is because of the low resonance setting which is supposed to be different in these clips anyways. I'm not sure if you're getting the point. I'll try and match those resonances so you guys don't need to learn what the speaker page means. ;)
 
The tone is pretty amazing!
But still, there's something about the pick attack on the Roadster/Roadking that the regular Rectos don't have..
Didn't play FW18 yet, but seems like the FAS Modern III is still closer to the Roadster..
Listen carefully to the second part of that clip, when Irotlas plays the Roadster.. right at the picking moment, there's a "quish" sound that the regular Rectos can't reproduce..
 
I have no horse in this race, but I'll give my input just as to what I am hearing. I'm listening through some middle of the road (cheapish) Audio-Technica ATH-M30's. They are my trusty old practice cans... they are not the flattest cans you can get, but for an A/B comparison I can hear quite well.

These are two different amps, so not supposed to be an exact match...

The second example definitely has more mids. It's quite a clear difference. The first clip is more scooped. It's noticeable. That said, that's just EQ and the distortion characteristics are pretty similar, and an IR choice or even a GEQ or PEQ could probably bring those two recordings closer together. The FW sounds very good. VERY VERY good.... A good twist on the mids knob and you have a very real recto going here....
 
Okay I tweaked the patch a little bit. This time I'm not going to say which is which but it should still be obvious. :) So one of these two is the Roadster and the other is G3 Recto.



It's not 100% but I sure as hell don't have a problem with a difference this small. The difference is smaller than Coke and Pepsi.

Anyways place your bets here! :lol
 
Haggerty makes way better reviews and demos than 95% of youtube. I always appreciate his videos.

I'm going to guess the first one on the new edit is the roadking while the second clip is the recto2. I was flipped on this at first until i put headphones on however, really quite close.
Care to message me the answers?
 
They are close .my preference is 1 ,based on the fact that one seems Slightly fuller clearer on the attack thats my vote on the axe.

They are so close though , I think the one thing for certain ,G3 is gonna be a lot of fun and one hell of an update for all owners
 
Clark Kent said:
90% of the difference is because of the low resonance setting which is supposed to be different in these clips anyways. I'm not sure if you're getting the point. I'll try and match those resonances so you guys don't need to learn what the speaker page means. ;)
Click to expand...

Oh I completely understand what the speaker page does. On the other hand, I'm not sure you know what a hyperbole is.

And it also doesn't matter which one is the Axe-fx II and which one is the amp. They don't sound the same as each other, which is exactly what your title and claim is. I suppose maybe your inability to grasp that is caused by oxygen deprivation being brought on by spending too much time blowing hot air up everybody's collective butt about this point you keep going on about, though. So prognosis probably isn't good. :encouragement:
 
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