Fryette D60 More not enough gain?

[alethomantis]

I really enjoy the tone demonstrated in these videos (very thick and saturated yet with loads of headroom due to the KT88s):


When trying to match this tone on the Axe, the model (D60 More) feels dramatically undergained.
Is it possible that there is some sort of mistake with the model?

 

[jaycal6]

Definitely seems to have less gain than my real Deliverance 60 series II.

 

[flitz]

Yes, very curious that in this comparison video, he has to raise the Input Trim up to 2.000, in attempt to match the Gain.

 

[OrganicZed]

I think he got really close after the tweaks. It was interesting that the model seemed to have less gain. Could the bias level of his power amp tubes account for the observed difference?

 

[Rotti]

I think he got really close after the tweaks. It was interesting that the model seemed to have less gain. Could the bias level of his power amp tubes account for the observed difference?

IDK, but his actual amp sounds a lot like how I remember the Deliverance sounding "in the wild."
Agreed that they sound VERY similar after tweaking. Especially with the final hi/lo pass EQ.
Could just be that the FAS in-house reference amp has less gain?

 

[Budda]

IDK, but his actual amp sounds a lot like how I remember the Deliverance sounding "in the wild."
Agreed that they sound VERY similar after tweaking. Especially with the final hi/lo pass EQ.
Could just be that the FAS in-house reference amp has less gain?

That would be very odd?

I remember being disappointed with the d60 due to lack of gain.

 

[Reet]

I also think the fractal one sounds great but is under gained.

 

[Sfalsetto]

I posed this question back in 2017. The model used to be my go-to from the II days. Early on, it was a high gain monster. After one of the updates, it changed pretty drastically. We never really got any sort of official info on what changed.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fryette-deliverance-model-question.127707/

 

[pushead2]

I played on a friend's D120 in '06 / '07 a bunch of times and I remember being underwhelmed with the gain - much to how I feel when I play the D60 on the Fractal.

I know "III: In the Eyes of Fire" was recorded with a D120, but that album doesn't have gobs of gain on it either.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Fryette/VHT amps are famously dry. This gives the impression of less gain.

 

[pushead2]

Fryette/VHT amps are famously dry. This gives the impression of less gain.

This is very true!

 

[unix-guy]

Fryette/VHT amps are famously dry. This gives the impression of less gain.

What does that even mean? Drive / Gain isn't typically a wet/dry type of thing...

And if it is, then it's not an "impression" it's just "less".

 

[Budda]

I played on a friend's D120 in '06 / '07 a bunch of times and I remember being underwhelmed with the gain - much to how I feel when I play the D60 on the Fractal.

I know "III: In the Eyes of Fire" was recorded with a D120, but that album doesn't have gobs of gain on it either.

Its a high gain modern metal tone on that album. More gain than the d60 in the axe. Bought it when it came out.

 

[OrganicZed]

What does that even mean? Drive / Gain isn't typically a wet/dry type of thing...

And if it is, then it's not an "impression" it's just "less".

I think people mean that the gain does not add much compression to the signal. This results in a stiff feel even when there is a lot of overdrive happening.

 

[CrimsonKing]

What does that even mean? Drive / Gain isn't typically a wet/dry type of thing...

And if it is, then it's not an "impression" it's just "less".

It means it is not a saturated gain. The lack of compression & saturation gives the impression of less gain.

 

[Rotti]

What does that even mean? Drive / Gain isn't typically a wet/dry type of thing...

And if it is, then it's not an "impression" it's just "less".

He means dry like a Diezel VH4 is dry vs., say, an Engl Powerball.
It can be high gain but not overly saturated.

One of the tricks to the Deliverance is to really push the overdrive way up there if you want anything resembling a squishy feel like most expect out of high gain. It never really gets very far in that direction, but still makes a significant difference.

 

[unix-guy]

I'm not really a high gain guy so no real experience with these amps.

The "less compression" part makes some sense.

The "not saturated" doesn't make sense because saturation is gain as far as I'm aware...

Anyway, thanks for the replies.

 

[Dave Merrill]

What's the difference between saturation and distortion in this context?
Is one more compressed?
Which?

 

[CrimsonKing]

What's the difference between saturation and distortion in this context?
Is one more compressed?
Which?

Saturation is the product of both gain & compression. Typically a highly saturated amp will have a power amp that introduces compression. Dry sounding amps will have a clean power amp section along with an uncompressed preamp section.

 

[Reet]

Alot of folks say that Fryette and Splawns are very stiff and unforgiving. I've had a Splawn Quickrod as my main amp for 2 years and i don't feel its super unforgiving. I came from a 5153 so I was expecting to be shocked by the "lack of saturation and compression." I think alot of comes down to the player. I pick super hard and use less gain. I do still feel the D60 in the fractal lacks gain. I can smash the strings and make notes go out of tune and it still sounds timid.