Fryette and Marix Power Amps Coloring

bikertrash

bikertrash

Inspired
Hey Gang. I'm looking at the power amp options to run two 2X12 cabs with Vintage 30's in them in stereo. For my own practice time and personal enjoyment, I like the sound of running the Axe through an effects loops on a 20w Marshall clone that I added a Depth control to. The Depth really adds a nice thump when I want it. I have a Fryette PS-2 that is a great piece of equipment but I find it a little too linear. The Depth control on it doesn't have a lot of impact to me. I was wondering if people felt the Depth on the big amps made a big difference. Also if anybody has the LXII, does the Depth button impact the sound much?
Also folks with the Matrix amps, are they pretty linear or do they have a little color? I would love to move away from tubes more.
I could build a simple 20w stereo tube rig for about $500 when all is said and done, but I'm getting to where I just don't feel like it. That's getting really close to the smaller Matrix unit.

Thanks
 
The Xitone 1x12 Active wedge I had was powered by a 50W Matrix PA and it was incredible. Crystal clear and LOUD.
 
The Matrix amps are supposed to be very linear in response. They will not offer you more coloration than the Fryette PS-2.

I'm surprised you're not able to dial in the low end response you're looking for with what you have. I found that the output eq of the amp block is a powerful tool to add low end oomph.
 
OrganicZed said:
The Matrix amps are supposed to be very linear in response. They will not offer you more coloration than the Fryette PS-2.

I'm surprised you're not able to dial in the low end response you're looking for with what you have. I found that the output eq of the amp block is a powerful tool to add low end oomph.
Click to expand...

Ok, you know how sometimes people don't respond to their posts when they find a solution, I was just getting ready to write mine. I guess it's not so much a solution is that maybe I just didn't have something set up right. I was using the effects loop one of my tube amps and playing last night and all of the sudden, one of the tubes starts red-plating. I'm thinking, I am so done with tubes. So I toss it aside and get the PS-2 out again. I plug it in and into my 2x12's. Once again linear response but actually sounding better for some reason. So I turn up the resonance and now it seems to be reacting a little better. SO then I start messing with some heavier presets and actually using the depth control on the Axe amp. That was staring to make a big difference. Before with the FRFR's, It didn't seem to have as much effect. Now it works great.
Yes I did play with the eq on the Channel output and the Axe amp graphic EQ. I was trying to keep myself from getting Bass drunk. You know sometimes when you have that graphic on a Mesa, you can really get addicted to that low slider.
Thanks for the info on the Matrix Zed. I would still like to go solid state someday. Class-D, Resonance and Presence, no fans. Somebody build me one and I'll build you a tube amp :)
 
I have an LXII, and the depth switch definitely adds more thump on my setup. I would email David Phelge at Fryette and ask if there's any substantial difference between the depth control on the PS2 and the LXII, though.
 
I had a Matrix and sold it because off the missing thump :) i can add via the depth at my Synergy Syn 5050 :)
Also had a Mesa 20/20 and peavey classic 50/50...
For me the Syn 5050 is the thing what i need to have fun whem playing.
The LXII is very simmular to the Syn5050.
 
How about an analog EQ? it is crazy how much different outboard eqs sound and feel. Neve or Pultec style eqs are known for their low end, while API stuff is more known for aggressive midrange. Studio gear is not cheap but there are some lower price stuff available. Maybe Klark technic or warm audio, or DIYRE audio has a 500 series pultec clone for few hundred if you are into building your own. Take a listen to some YouTube regarding the “Pultec low end trick” and you will see what I’m talking about if you don’t already know.
 
I have been using the PEQ and Graphic EQ's in the Axe right before the output and I've been having good results. I did end up finding an old Rocktron Velocity 250 which I was definitely aiming for since it doesn't have a fan. I thought maybe the Reactance control would behave like a resonance control but not really. It does have a Definition control which brings out the upper mids and highs which is nice. Did I mention no fan? I have 2 Harley Benton 2x12's that I snatched up locally really cheap. Both were in like new condition and they were worth it just for the cabinets. I have 2 Mesa V30's on the way and I want to see the difference between fresh UK V30's and lightly used standard V30's. They might make a good mix in the end and then I'll see from there.
 
bikertrash said:
Hey Gang. I'm looking at the power amp options to run two 2X12 cabs with Vintage 30's in them in stereo. For my own practice time and personal enjoyment, I like the sound of running the Axe through an effects loops on a 20w Marshall clone that I added a Depth control to. The Depth really adds a nice thump when I want it. I have a Fryette PS-2 that is a great piece of equipment but I find it a little too linear. The Depth control on it doesn't have a lot of impact to me. I was wondering if people felt the Depth on the big amps made a big difference. Also if anybody has the LXII, does the Depth button impact the sound much?
Also folks with the Matrix amps, are they pretty linear or do they have a little color? I would love to move away from tubes more.
I could build a simple 20w stereo tube rig for about $500 when all is said and done, but I'm getting to where I just don't feel like it. That's getting really close to the smaller Matrix unit.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I was having the same issue and GASing for a tube power amp, thinking it would solve this. But you already have the answer....

Before you sell anything, try adjusting the depth knob on the virtual amp in your Axe FX. Secondly, try different impedance curves in the Axe also. See which one matches your cab. And if you want, adjust the curve Low Resonance Frequency parameters to taste....... I tried using EQ to solve this before but it didn't work as well because it's just EQ. it didn't give that saggy, dynamic, pop feel that you get with a tube amp. But dialing in the impedance curve and using depth controls really works for that

Reason you like the Depth control is because it controls how the power amp low end responds to a speakers impedance (presence is for high end). The good thing is the AXE models this and can be tweaked.

It cured my GAS for a new power amp.


Edit. Saw your other post. Sounds like you're barking up this tree already :)
 
Last edited:
I run my Axe Fx III through a Seymour Duncan Power Stage 700 into a a pair of Celestion F12-X200 loaded cabs. I was loving everything about the tones I was getting except I couldn't get quite as much cab thump as I wanted on high gain patches. I tried all the usual suspects to try and get more. Adding bass in the amp tone stack just made things flubbier (just like most real amps). The depth control I find is pretty subtle and is more useful on cleaner amps. Adding bass in the output eq section of the amp block, or an eq block after the amp, or the bass knob on the Power Station adds bottom end heft, but it kind of rounds off/softens the attack and gets kind of woofy and boomy sounding if you add any appreciable amount. I messed with the speaker impedance curves a bit and didn't have much luck there either, though admittedly I didn't spend much time experimenting with that. Because then I found the perfect solution and have been grinning in chug heaven ever since. The proximity parameter in the cab block is magical for this purpose. It models the proximity effect of a microphone, enhancing specific low frequencies as it gets closer to the speaker. Well I just call it my thump control now. Just dial in your resonant frequency and amount of proximity effect and blam, there it is. So easy to dial in just the right amount of tight bottom end and cab thump, while leaving your critical midrange and highs intact.

Tip: Set the proximity frequency much lower than the default 120 Hz. I set mine at 75 Hz, but I've seen a post where a guy sets his at 55 Hz. It's counter-intuitive but it actually results in a tighter low end than when it's set at 100 or 120 Hz.
 
Yep, I remembered that one too last week when I was playing around with the smoothing but didn't didn't really have to dial it in much. I was still using my studio monitors with a sub for just playing in the house. I'm thinking of going the F12 route as well though. Did you build the Celestion recommended box or have an aftermarket?
 
bikertrash said:
Yep, I remembered that one too last week when I was playing around with the smoothing but didn't didn't really have to dial it in much. I was still using my studio monitors with a sub for just playing in the house. I'm thinking of going the F12 route as well though. Did you build the Celestion recommended box or have an aftermarket?
Click to expand...
I was planning to build a pair of the Celestion ported cabs, but I had a couple of old empty Avatar vertical 2x12's sitting around that I decided to try the F12-X200's in first. I did the "detuned" cab thing where only one speaker gets loaded in each cab, in the top holes, and the bottom holes stay open. Well I haven't thought about building the Celestion spec cabs since. They sound spectacular in the Avatar cabs. Especially since I found my thump control on the Axe Fx. For all I know they'd sound even better in the Celestion design cab, but I'm not in a hurry to build or buy those now. I couldn't be happier with the tones I'm getting.
 
Infinite Radius said:
I was planning to build a pair of the Celestion ported cabs, but I had a couple of old empty Avatar vertical 2x12's sitting around that I decided to try the F12-X200's in first. I did the "detuned" cab thing where only one speaker gets loaded in each cab, in the top holes, and the bottom holes stay open. Well I haven't thought about building the Celestion spec cabs since. They sound spectacular in the Avatar cabs. Especially since I found my thump control on the Axe Fx. For all I know they'd sound even better in the Celestion design cab, but I'm not in a hurry to build or buy those now. I couldn't be happier with the tones I'm getting.
Click to expand...
Do they translate well across differently character'd presets? (ie: vox / fender / marshall / mesa). Or, in other words, can any given diverse presets dialed in on flat studio monitors be run through the FR Cabs with no additional eq tweaking required ( or at least with a consistent eq tweak that does not need to vary accross presets) ?

I'm curious as I also have some cabs I'm thinking of converting to FR with X200s.
 
sprint said:
Do they translate well across differently character'd presets? (ie: vox / fender / marshall / mesa). Or, in other words, can any given diverse presets dialed in on flat studio monitors be run through the FR Cabs with no additional eq tweaking required ( or at least with a consistent eq tweak that does not need to vary accross presets) ?

I'm curious as I also have some cabs I'm thinking of converting to FR with X200s.
Click to expand...
To my ears, yes absolutely. I ran my Axe III exclusively through my studio monitors (no sub) for the first 3 months I had it, and dialed all my current presets in on them. When I tried those same presets through my new PS700 -> F12-X200 setup, I was very pleasantly surprised how well they all translated, including all the amps you mention and many more. The only tweaks I did were the previously mentioned proximity trick to get some good tight bottom end and cab thump going (mostly on the higher gain patches, but I use it on some Fender and Vox clean tones too for a bigger bolder bottom without the flub), and a slight cut in the low mids between 500 and 700 Hz applied to all presets via the global eq for output 1. Interestingly there's a small spike in the frequency response curve of the F12-X200 right there, so that must be what my ears were telling me needed flattening. If I want to run through my monitors or to FOH at a venue, I use output 2 with no eq.
 
Infinite Radius said:
To my ears, yes absolutely. I ran my Axe III exclusively through my studio monitors (no sub) for the first 3 months I had it, and dialed all my current presets in on them. When I tried those same presets through my new PS700 -> F12-X200 setup, I was very pleasantly surprised how well they all translated, including all the amps you mention and many more. The only tweaks I did were the previously mentioned proximity trick to get some good tight bottom end and cab thump going (mostly on the higher gain patches, but I use it on some Fender and Vox clean tones too for a bigger bolder bottom without the flub), and a slight cut in the low mids between 500 and 700 Hz applied to all presets via the global eq for output 1. Interestingly there's a small spike in the frequency response curve of the F12-X200 right there, so that must be what my ears were telling me needed flattening. If I want to run through my monitors or to FOH at a venue, I use output 2 with no eq.
Click to expand...
Thanks - that's really encouraging. I have 2 V30 loaded ported mesa 112s that seem in the ballpark spec for x200 cabs - am thinking it may be easier to convert the mesa cabs to FR / X200 and build / get myself 2 standard 112s (or a 212) enclosures for the v30s, rather than build 2 enclosures to celestion spec for the x200s.
 
I have an Lxii with my AXE FX 3 and have used it for years. The depth definitely adds a lot although personally I don't use it. For what it's worth I will literally only use neutral Fryette power amps with my AXE FX 3. For the quality of build, feel, and sheer volume I think they're unbeatable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom