Friedman BE-100: Pre vs Post Cygnus Models

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Below is a chart which shows the Friedman BE-100 models with their model names, amp references, and descriptions for modes/channels. This is for the pre-Cygnus models (right) and the post-Cygnus models (left). I noticed that the mapping or pairing of the old and new models wasn't following a clear logical order. For example, Friedman BE C45 is now Friedman BE V1 Fat. Why would the old BE C45 not pair with the new BE C45? In fact, the new BE C45 doesn't pair with any of the old models. The old (H)BE V1 & V2 pair with the new (H)BE V1 & V2. That would be great, but the old V1s had voice toggle -> right whereas the new V1s have voice toggle -> left. Is there any logical explanation why apparently equivalent models weren't directly paired up?

Friedman Models Cygnus.png
 
What do you mean by “paired up”? The order in which they appear in the list of models in the amp block? I think that’s kind of arbitrary, just because one model was at the same position in a previous firmware doesn’t imply it has any relationship to the model that’s there now.
 
By paired up I mean for presets built pre-Cygnus with Friedman amp models, when that preset is loaded into FW 4.0, a new amp model is autopopulated in it's place. For example, a pre-Cygnus preset with a Friedman BE C45 model, is now displaying as a Cygnus Friedman V1 Fat. Or pre-Cygnus Friedman BE = Cygnus Friedman BE V3, when one would think pre-Cygnus Friedman BE should = Cygnus Friedman BE 2010.
 
Yeah how come the voice switches have switched around? Are they the same actual voicings and the switch orientation changed or is the old v2 different to the new v2 voicing-wise?
 
Random Hero said:
Yeah how come the voice switches have switched around? Are they the same actual voicings and the switch orientation changed or is the old v2 different to the new v2 voicing-wise?
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The voicing switch looks to be basically a 3 way bright switch
V2 in both models Marks and the 2018 is the brightest
i wonder maybe in the old model
C45 , Fat , Bright were all separate yet maybe 2018 the 3 way has fat in one of the positions
there was a 2020 Deluxe BE in Cygnus Beta but it gone , I do agree though it can be confusing would much rather have conventional names like
2014 BE / HBE
2018 BE/HBE
 
So I'm having a hard time following the chart, but I do remember Cliff mentioning that one of the Friedman models had been removed ? I could just be misremembering. @yek hopefully will one day update the amp list and provide some more in depth analysis. He always does a bang up job.
 
yek said:
The amp list in the wiki already is updated.
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This list was derived from the Wiki list.
Damian Camarillo said:
So I'm having a hard time following the chart, but I do remember Cliff mentioning that one of the Friedman models had been removed ? I could just be misremembering.
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1. In pre-Cygnus firmware, build a preset with a Friedman amp model, say "Friedman BE C45".
---The Pre-Cygnus Friedman BE C45 model was from the Mark Day amp, BE channel, with the C45 switch engaged.
2. Update FAS hardware with Cygnus firmware.
3. Load said preset into Cygnified device.
4. Preset with amp model "Friedman BE C45" now displays as "Friedman BE V1 Fat".
---The Friedman BE V1 Fat is from the 2018 amp, BE channel, Voice switch -> Left, Fat switch -> On.

Left 3 columns = new amp models that automatically replace the old amp models in the right 3 columns.

Problem is, it doesn't seem like the logical pairings/matches between the new amp models and the old amp models. To my puny brain, the pre-Cygnus "Friedman BE C45" shouldn't get automatically updated as the Cygnus "Friedman BE V1 Fat", rather pre-Cygnus "Friedman BE C45" should be replaced by/paired/matched with the new Cygnus "Friedman BE C45".

Is this intentional on FAS' part? Is it that the that the new Cygnus "Friedman BE V1 Fat" is closest in behavior/sound to the pre-Cygnus "Friedman BE C45"?

For my pre-Cygnus presets, should I recreate them in Cygnus by:
a) the new Cygnus models that automatically replace the old models?
Or
b) add in the new Cygnus models that are the logical corollary to the pre-Cygnus models?

Am I really the only one confused/frustrated/thrown off by this?! What's next, tomatoes can be fruits and vegetables?! Seahorses can be the mommy and daddy?! Girls can be boys and boys can be Bronies!?!
 
I thought it was pretty simple. We used to have three Friedman amps with varying levels of completeness. Now we have one completely modeled and one (the Marsha) as it was before. There’s no one to one correspondence because the models are different.
 
ElectricPhase said:
I thought it was pretty simple. We used to have three Friedman amps with varying levels of completeness. Now we have one completely modeled and one (the Marsha) as it was before. There’s no one to one correspondence because the models are different.
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Still, presets that used each of these before Cygnus will use some specific model post Cygnus. That has to be a one to one mapping, some old model to some new model, anything else wouldn't make any sense.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Still, presets that used each of these before Cygnus will use some specific model post Cygnus. That has to be a one to one mapping, some old model to some new model, anything else wouldn't make any sense.
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Point taken. There could be a mention in the release notes that you have to manually reselect the amp model you want, I suppose.
 
@FractalAudio @Admin M@ @rglr - Any chance someone from FAS could chime in on this?

1) Are the automatic mappings/updates of old models to new models correct?
(i.e. (old) Friedman BE C45 = (new) Friedman BE V1 Fat)

2) Are the automatic mappings/updates of old models to new models incorrect? If so, then

3) Should we update pre-Cygnus presets to have the Cygnus Friedman models which most closely correlate with the pre-Cygnus models?
(i.e. (old) Friedman BE C45 = (new) Friedman BE C45)

Thank you!
 
This is a confusing issue for me as well and has led me down the path of trying out each Friedman model one by one to find out which model sounds most like the 2018 HBE C45 that was my #1 pre-Cygnus. The Ares version sounded a lot tighter and the Cygnus has a strange fuzzy low end compared to it. So far I haven't been able to narrow it down but I have sort of given up chasing that tone; I've settled for the BE C45 with the gain higher up rather than using the HBE with lower gain settings.

I was also wondering about something else that is slightly unrelated: does anybody know what voicing switch has the C45 model been set to? I would imagine that the position of the voicing switch might also impact how the C45 reacts. It would be interesting to know which two models one can A/B to see what flipping the C45 switch on and off sounds like.
 
The Pre Cygnus Friedman BE-100 V1, V2 and C45 were my go overdrive presets. I have owned a BE-100 and currently own the Synergy BE- module and Syn 50 50 amp. The new Cygnus models don't in my view come close. The Pre Cygnus are great. Why the change?
 
Reib1 said:
The Pre Cygnus Friedman BE-100 V1, V2 and C45 were my go overdrive presets.
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Mine as well. My tone chase had ended for good with the Ares HBE 2018 C45. But Cygnus has left me searching once again. I have now shifted to the BE V2 instead of the BE C45 for my core tone. The point is that I am still not 100% satisfied; the stock HBE 2018 C45 on Ares sounded spot on. Now I have to mess with deeper parameters to get the tone I like from Friedman amps.

Reib1 said:
The new Cygnus models don't in my view come close. The Pre Cygnus are great. Why the change?
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Would be interesting to hear someone from FAS on this. I thought that the earlier models were spot on and the newer modelling was supposed to be even closer to the real thing? Although I would imagine the Synergy module is not exactly the same as the Friedman amps, especially because the power section is quite different.
 
I-tried to chase the original pre Cygnus Friedman patches i could not get close. Not sure why they changed it. I went as far as to reload the previous release, got my tones back.
 
They Synergy stuff is good and yes the power section is 6l6 instead of el 34 but it's very close. I really like the fractal nice and light with a matrix power amp. The Synergy stuff is too heavy and need to incorporate the the FX 3 for delays and drive pedals, too much stuff to carry around.
 
Cygnas in some cases appears to have more Amp Block gain, so you can try lowering the Amp Block's Input Trim (start at .5 - .75 and tweak from there...).
 
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