Frfr when the other guy is traditional?

ChainOfThought

ChainOfThought

Experienced
I've been really itching to try an FRFR setup but I can't figure out from searching forum discussions if it'll be a good fit for me--or more accurately if it will be a good possible fit for my situation.

I likely won't be playing live, although there's always the chance of a small gig here and there. I'll be playing 90% metal, any tone other than high gain is secondary and not that important. I don't care about replicating other people's tones like you might need for a cover band. I'm already comfortable playing through a traditional cab and having separate presets for recording.

All of that on its own still just leaves it up to preference. What I'm concerned about, is that the other guitarist that I'm starting a project with will be using a traditional rig, mesa mkiv through a 412 or 212 to be exact. So, in the room, how well does frfr mix with a traditional cab? Theoretically it should sound very strange, since one guitar is supposed to sound like a recorded/miced tone and the other is raw cab in the room. But does that hold true in real life?

I feel like I'm taking myself into trying frfr just because it's the thing to do, when in reality I have no reason or proper use for it. On the other hand, I'm only looking at a ts212, so it's not like the price of admission would be so high that I'll cry if I don't like it...
 
Sounds like you have no need for FRFR, which would allow you to take advantage of IR's and not have every amp sound alike. I played in a band when I was FRFR and another guitarist had a marshall poweramp and triaxis. we blended fine, he was just a volume hog, so that led me to start using in ears.
 
Yea. I feel like it would be fun and cool to have, just not a necessary step towards a goal. I guess it could be a necessary step towards a goal of having a stereo frfr setup... But that would still be just for fun.

Also I don't think every amp sounds, or especially feels, the same through a pa/cab. I know having access to IRs would make a huge difference in just how many tones are available, but if I like the sound of my cab, and I'm only worried about in the room tone and not FOH reproduction, I guess it's not something I need to worry about.

I still want to try it though... Damn rabbit holes.
 
I use 2 ts212s and predict that you will always think the other guy is louder than you even when he isn't, and you will always envy the power and immediacy of his sound. It took me a long time to get used to frfr, but having to play next to a real amp and cab all the time would have made that adjustment period unbearable. Especially having to compete with a markiv.
 
I use a single 12" powered floor monitor in the same situation. Other guitar players use anything from 1x12 combos up to 4x12 half stack. I haven't had any problems with matching volume. I think placement has a lot to do with it. I've only noticed a difference in really awesome bottom end from the 4x12 with the JMP. But, I could add a sub to the monitor if I really wanted to match. When drums and bass come in, there aren't any problems(mostly classic rock, nothing really heavy).
The only problem I have had is one guitar players wife bought him a dsl40 combo for Christmas. All icepick! I have a headache for two days after he uses it....
 
All good input.

I suppose for now I'll be better served by not messing with it. I'll continue using studio monitors and headphones to tweak my recorded tones, and PA/cab for playing and practice. Maybe I'll come across a good enough deal at some point to snag one just to have it.
 
i guess my thought on this is if you aren't playing live then what are your plans? are you recording? essentially if you are recording then his cab will end up being miced which is essentially the same as what the ax8 is designed to do. If you play live, you will still mike his cab unless your venue is too small to go through a pa. You can use your cab for monitoring but the audience will hear the ax8 tone. This is what I do simply for the sake of not spending more money right now. one day I want a frfr simply so my stage sound will match my audience sound but I'm not playing big venues or making money doing any of it. If you are just jamming for fun, I wouldn't worry too much either way. I don't think it will sound strange regardless of what you decide to do.
 
For jamming in a room with a drummer, bassist and other guitar player I'd choose a real cab over FR every time. It's just easier to sound better. I found I preferred the consistency over testing thousands of IRs into FR. Dialing up amp tones is so much quicker with no IR rabbit hole to distract you.

As soon as you run into the need to mic your cab, either for recording or live gig, that's where I'd really prefer to use a good IR and go direct. Tends to sound better for me. If I was still gigging lots and they were big shows, I'd do like I used to and run regular cab onstage, IR to DI out for FOH. I always said if I ever was doing REALLY big shows, I'd ditch the guitar cabs and go FR for stage monitoring too. For anything really big, the audience won't hear your stage cabs much anyway.

But for small pub gigs, if I put guitar into the PA at all, I'm aware the room will still hear most of my guitar straight from my loud-ass guitar cab in the backline, same as I do. So in that case I tend to keep my presets simple and just stick a 57 in front of a cone like the old days. Just to supplement a bit into the PA.
 
Yup, those are pretty much the conclusions I've come to. The goal is jamming and recording, if we stick at it long enough we might play a gig or two for fun, but nothing big. I'm honestly hoping that I can convince the other guy to record through my ax8, or at least just record dry tracks while using his mesa that I can send through the ax8 later. We're not gonna have an ideal setup for micing a cab.

Does frfr offer any advantage when it comes to tweaking a preset for recording purposes? Versus studio monitors and headphones.
 
ChainOfThought said:
Yup, those are pretty much the conclusions I've come to. The goal is jamming and recording, if we stick at it long enough we might play a gig or two for fun, but nothing big. I'm honestly hoping that I can convince the other guy to record through my ax8, or at least just record dry tracks while using his mesa that I can send through the ax8 later. We're not gonna have an ideal setup for micing a cab.

Does frfr offer any advantage when it comes to tweaking a preset for recording purposes? Versus studio monitors and headphones.
Click to expand...

Studio headphones / monitors Are frfr.
More so than the alto no doubt.
 
I think he meant "does a loud FRFR stage monitor, such as a CLR or the like, offer any advantage... Versus studio monitors and headphones"

1). For tweaking presets for recording purposes... NO.

2). For tweaking presets for Live FR purposes... MAYBE. Tweaking at stage / live volume levels tends to give better results. If you tweak in headphones or low volume desktop studio monitors, you might be surprised (in a bad way) how it sounds when you show up at a gig and run direct to FOH and the venue's stage wedges.

https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/
 
Yeah robboman got it. I do know that studio monitors and (appropriate) headphones are FRFR by nature. I did also mean an FRFR cab with enough power to get a feeling from the tone.

I guess the question is more along the lines that I know setting up a preset for live use using only low-volume sources like phones or monitors can be disastrous. So what about the reverse. With a regular amp, at least in my experience, you often get your tone at brutally high output levels...where half of what you're trying to capture is the physical feeling of the cab, hence the whole amp-in-the-room debacle. Getting an awesome tone at high enough volumes to feel it in your chest is pretty much one of the best parts of playing guitar. So my question is essentially, if I use an FRFR cab at high enough volumes to feel it in your chest, does that translate as well to a recorded track as using phones/monitors, or does it defeat the purpose.

And yes, I should have probably known fletcher-Munson would be the answer to that question.

I'm pretty much set with just continuing to use a pa/cab and do all the recording side of it through a desk setup. I don't care at all if the tone I use live has no direct relationship to the tone I use for a recording, as long as they both sound good. So I think that'll endure as the ideal setup for me, with FRFR offering no real advantage or any real argument in support of its use.

Still just seems like one of those things I need to try :tongueclosed:

Edit: Actually the one other good reason I had to get that Alto was that I can also use it for bass. I don't currently have a bass cab anyways, so if it sounds good enough and can keep up with a reasonable drummer....maybe there's the reason to snag one. Hmmm
 
Last edited:
I personally make patches for recording using whatever headphones and monitors I will be mixing in, at the volume I will mix at or a bit quieter. That works well for me but if you try it the other way you should report back.
 
Here is a different take. Just started doing this exact thing at practice. Two guitars and heavy metal (priest, maiden, metallica, ozzy etc.) At practice other guitarist is using jvm halfstack and I am using my ax8. I dont use a PERSONAL frfr, I just run it though our practice mains along with the vocals. We use a pair of yamaha DSR 10 (or DSR 12s, I forget lol) hung from the ceiling and pointed back at band. Seemed to work well and I am a hardcore amp guy. (I still believe real amps sound better, but the ax8 gets me 90-95% there)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom