FRFR - What is the major Diff, and which are the best?

Billbill said:
Save your time, money, and sanity...avoid the Mission cab. They look the best, sound good but damn they fail too quick! I sent 3 back to sweetwater and currently exploring same as you
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That is terrible... Is that just the powered ones or non-powered ones, as well?

I would rather have a Matrix amp and non-powered speakers; however, I was told that the Friedman ASM12 is a better option; I will just go with one of those (at least for the moment); the only drawback is it isn't stereo, and that is the whole point of the FRFR option for me. Otherwise, I see a possible solution with a Matrix Amp, using my Marshall 4x12 (stereo) that never gets used! I know, not FRFR, but it would work with the Cabs turned off. Still trying to sort it out! Just so much to change over!

Plus, I am still going to hook this up through my Archon –– Will probably be selling my FTR37 and my Splawn QR, which I haven't cut on in over a year, other than to re-tube it a couple months ago! Already sold the JP-2C!
 
Yes! Stereo! Same boat as u again. Just remember what I said about the Mission. The one I had was the powered Gemini 2. Luckily my guy Justin at sweetwater was great to deal with and I was fully refunded. Super disappointing because I spent hundreds of hours crafting presets and of course they sounded like shit when put through a "real" amp/cab! I'm thinking of getting 2 passive FRFR cabs and a powerful stereo poweramp! Just not many options out there I guess. These matrix poweramps are highly regarded on this forum though.
 
Rick said:
It took an adjustment in listening for me,
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I hear this a TON on the forum, that FRFR takes an adjustment for some. What does this even mean exactly? Is it the adjusting of how you would go about tweaking presets on FRFR vs the "real amp and cab? Adjusting to what your hearing coming from FRFR speakers? I don't get it. I've ran an FRFR and when cranked it sounded great and there was nothing that stood out that said "this is an FRFR cab". I'm only asking because you seem to have more experience than me know what you're talking about. I'm just tryin to learn man.
 
Billbill said:
Yes! Stereo! Same boat as u again. Just remember what I said about the Mission. The one I had was the powered Gemini 2. Luckily my guy Justin at sweetwater was great to deal with and I was fully refunded. Super disappointing because I spent hundreds of hours crafting presets and of course they sounded like shit when put through a "real" amp/cab! I'm thinking of getting 2 passive FRFR cabs and a powerful stereo poweramp! Just not many options out there I guess. These matrix poweramps are highly regarded on this forum though.
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I Came close to buying a mission... Was it the amp, the speakers or both you had issues with?
 
Billbill said:
I hear this a TON on the forum, that FRFR takes an adjustment for some. What does this even mean exactly? Is it the adjusting of how you would go about tweaking presets on FRFR vs the "real amp and cab? Adjusting to what your hearing coming from FRFR speakers? I don't get it. I've ran an FRFR and when cranked it sounded great and there was nothing that stood out that said "this is an FRFR cab". I'm only asking because you seem to have more experience than me know what you're talking about. I'm just tryin to learn man.
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I have no idea... I def do not have more experience, as I have never used a FRFR speaker other than my studio monitors; They sound ok... I miss the low-end that a guitar cab gives, so that is why I am going to find a solution! I would rather have a Matrix amp and non-powered speaker. If you powered speaker goes down, you are down; if the amp goes, you replace it! Again, maybe I am thinking like a player form the early 90's vs 2018! So much has changed...

The only difference that I can think of that a FRFR speaker will give you is: advantage of hearing the effects in their full range of frequencies and simulating a great cabinet/speaker. Everyone speaks of guitar cabinets coloring the sound... The cab impulse responses are doing that exact thing so in a situation where you are not needing the mike it, and you have a great sounding cabinet, I do not see an advantage. Maybe I am wrong... I have been known to be wrong more times that right when it comes to this stuff!
 
Billbill said:
I hear this a TON on the forum, that FRFR takes an adjustment for some. What does this even mean exactly? Is it the adjusting of how you would go about tweaking presets on FRFR vs the "real amp and cab? Adjusting to what your hearing coming from FRFR speakers? I don't get it. I've ran an FRFR and when cranked it sounded great and there was nothing that stood out that said "this is an FRFR cab". I'm only asking because you seem to have more experience than me know what you're talking about. I'm just tryin to learn man.
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In some cases, guitar players switching over to FRFR find that it can take some time and adjustment to hearing frequencies coming from a tweeter that they normally hear from a 12" guitar driver. For some, it's a seamless transition while others take some time. For many others though its just something they just can't quite get used to.
 
Paul Abell said:
I have no idea... I def do not have more experience, as I have never used a FRFR speaker other than my studio monitors; They sound ok... I miss the low-end that a guitar cab gives, so that is why I am going to find a solution! I would rather have a Matrix amp and non-powered speaker. If you powered speaker goes down, you are down; if the amp goes, you replace it! Again, maybe I am thinking like a player form the early 90's vs 2018! So much has changed...

The only difference that I can think of that a FRFR speaker will give you is: advantage of hearing the effects in their full range of frequencies and simulating a great cabinet/speaker. Everyone speaks of guitar cabinets coloring the sound... The cab impulse responses are doing that exact thing so in a situation where you are not needing the mike it, and you have a great sounding cabinet, I do not see an advantage. Maybe I am wrong... I have been known to be wrong more times that right when it comes to this stuff!
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Don't want to add anything about FRFR vs Cab vs IEM. Well covered territory...

Concerning things failing on a gig: blown amp or speaker...you're dead in the water either way unless you have a failsafe ready to go. I've never blown the amp or drivers in my CLR, but I'm sure if I did, it would be a manufacturing defect, not user error. Most brands out there are built like tanks and have but in DSP/limiters, etc. If anything did fail, most companies would surely rush you a replacement plate amp or driver. Self-powered monitors/cabs are similar to the Matrix/passive speaker combo in that they're modular. You can replace parts. The only difference is a few screws to loosen to fix it.
 
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Billbill said:
I hear this a TON on the forum, that FRFR takes an adjustment for some. What does this even mean exactly? Is it the adjusting of how you would go about tweaking presets on FRFR vs the "real amp and cab? Adjusting to what your hearing coming from FRFR speakers? I don't get it. I've ran an FRFR and when cranked it sounded great and there was nothing that stood out that said "this is an FRFR cab". I'm only asking because you seem to have more experience than me know what you're talking about. I'm just tryin to learn man.
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A guitar cabinet simply won't produce the full range of sound. The upper and lower end of the spectrum isn't represented as well, especially the high end to me. Tons of mids. So that's what you hear. I was used to it, and liked it. If you're using FX that use that range you won't hear it from a guitar cabinet. Before FRFR, I just had a mic in front of a speaker, so I heard whatever the cabinet could produce and the audience heard what I did. When I went FRFR onstage/direct to FOH with the Axe FX, I started hearing things I never did with a guitar amp... the FRFR was giving me frequencies my guitar speaker didn't. It didn't sound "like an amp." Having studio experience, I realized it sounded like an amp on playback through full range speakers, where you can hear reverb tailing off, and low low artifacts of other FX. So, once I adjusted to that, I began really liking it, and even came to prefer it.

You can certainly make the FRFR sound somewhat like a guitar cabinet by only sending those frequencies a guitar speaker covers, but why would you? The guitar you hear on records, and often in concert, is not the raw speaker sound. Full range FX are added in and the full spectrum of the sound utilized. That's the adjustment. Hearing that onstage, all the time, just like listening to a recording: but live. You could say it is more like listening to the finished product instead of the raw source. There are fans of each, and neither is wrong.
 
Rick said:
A guitar cabinet simply won't produce the full range of sound. The upper and lower end of the spectrum isn't represented as well, especially the high end to me. Tons of mids. So that's what you hear. I was used to it, and liked it. If you're using FX that use that range you won't hear it from a guitar cabinet. Before FRFR, I just had a mic in front of a speaker, so I heard whatever the cabinet could produce and the audience heard what I did. When I went FRFR onstage/direct to FOH with the Axe FX, I started hearing things I never did with a guitar amp... the FRFR was giving me frequencies my guitar speaker didn't. It didn't sound "like an amp." Having studio experience, I realized it sounded like an amp on playback through full range speakers, where you can hear reverb tailing off, and low low artifacts of other FX. So, once I adjusted to that, I began really liking it, and even came to prefer it.

You can certainly make the FRFR sound somewhat like a guitar cabinet by only sending those frequencies a guitar speaker covers, but why would you? The guitar you hear on records, and often in concert, is not the raw speaker sound. Full range FX are added in and the full spectrum of the sound utilized. That's the adjustment. Hearing that onstage, all the time, just like listening to a recording: but live. You could say it is more like listening to the finished product instead of the raw source. There are fans of each, and neither is wrong.
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Rick... I may not have stated it as well as you, but that is essentially what I was saying. There is no doubt that the FX span beyond a guitar cabinet/speaker capabilities, and that is why it makes sense. Not minimizing the importance of the FRFR speakers with the Axe-Fx or any other model, I was merely trying to see if that is all there was to it!

Let me see if I can word it differently. Lets say you run completely dry, with no effects on whatsoever. If you run the Axe-Fx though a Matrix amp though FRFR speaker what would the advantage be over cutting off the cab impulse response and running it though the same matrix amp into the very cab it is trying to emulate. Would that sound be better on the FRFR speaker? That is all I was asking... the effects make total sense!

What if we ran the real amp through the FRFR speakers what would we get?

Has anyone tested this very thing?
 
Paul Abell said:
Let me see if I can word it differently. Lets say you run completely dry, with no effects on whatsoever. If you run the Axe-Fx though a Matrix amp though FRFR speaker what would the advantage be over cutting off the cab impulse response and running it though the same matrix amp into the very cab it is trying to emulate. Would that sound be better on the FRFR speaker? That is all I was asking... the effects make total sense!
What if we ran the real amp through the FRFR speakers what would we get?
Has anyone tested this very thing?
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Don't worry, I wasn't taking anything as an argument. :) These things all come down to preference in the end, so there really is no wrong way if it sounds like you want it to sound!

In the first scenario you discussed, my guess (I've not done it) is that you'd get that sound less any mic sound that is "baked in" to the cabinet IR. One thing many miss here is that it is the cabinet/speaker, IR or actual, that has the biggest effect on sound, IMHO. So, changing that part of the equation around can have a significant impact on your sound. Of course, only you can say if the impact is good or bad. I will say that running all your presets through the same IR can have a very unifying effect on your overall tone.

I'll be watching to see what others have done. For me, it was all regular amp/cabs and then all Axe FX/FRFR, so I don't have that middle ground experience.
 
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Been following this thread, very informative and got me leaning towards the FRFR route once again. @Paul Abell to answer your other question about my past FRFR cab issues; it was a powered cab so not sure if it was a speaker issue or the internal poweramp. First one had no output only an extremely loud buzzer sound. Second one lasted 3 months then the one of the speakers cut out, third times a charm...lost one side again! Poweramps are sealed and void warranty if opened but I'm sure I could have fixed it but screw that!
Leaning towards a passive FRFR route being as I favor dense studio tones, but I need POWERRRR! Lol
 
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