FRFR vs. Poweramp/cab

[the-patient]

Hey guys,


I know this seems EXTREMELY redundant, but I feel this hasn't been discussed in a long time, and with the advent of the Atomic FR, and the widespread use of the QSC K's, and Verve 12ma's, AND the use of the RedWirez IR's, I'm wondering if there still even an argument.

To be clear I know what people think the advantages are for each one, I'm just wondering if FRFR has closed the gap in your opinions.

I'm using a QSC HPR122i, and I'll be honest that I'm not a fan of the actual form factor of it. I've had tons of success with it from an audio point of view, but I've still had to carry dummy amps to certain corporate gigs, because my boss wants a more "traditional look.

What do you guys think, is it even worth considering a 2x12 or 4x12 and mic'ing it up? Or would I be smartest just to walk over to the Atomic FR.

I'll say again, I have had success with FRFR, but I'm starting to question.

I feel like FRFR has caught up to Amp+Cab in ease of use, and sound quality, but has always surpassed it in versatility. But that's just my opinion, and I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same way.

 

[tubetonez]

Funny, I was about to post something similar. FWIW, I've used both types of rigs and will probably continue to do so. Here's a few things that occur to me.

FRFR

Pros:

Ideally, you get the same tones for stage & studio.

Ability to use various cab sims.

In many cases, a lighter rig to transport if you use provided wedges and/or IEM's.

A single rig will support both electric and acoustic guitars, even a hybrid electric with piezo outputs and dual outputs.

Cons:

More time spent tweaking amp & cab combinations

Getting the feel and tone in live situations

PA/CAB

Pros

More like using a real amp onstage.

Easier patch tweaking

More CPU headroom for complex rigs, without the cab blocks.

Cons:

Mic cab vs. DI w/cab sims

Inability to mix and match cab sims with amps



This has been my experience, and the impression I get from reading these forums. Look at all of the posts about IR's, getting the "in the room" sound, finding the "perfect" FRFR cab. I don't recall seeing any post from a PA/CAB user not happy with the sound of their guitar cab. Some want more power, or tube power, or a lighter amp.

I do feel that if you use a PA/CAB rig, and then use the FX loop + cab sim DI output to FOH it's kind of defeating your purpose. I've found that patches for each type of rig need to be tweaked differently.

 

[fearlessflier]

I decided to go FRFR recently and after much research bought an RCF ART 310a.

It is great at home, but I just can't get used to it in a band context. So for last practice I went back to back to my Mesa Boogie 20/20-made 210 and 112 cabs, which are also easy and light to carry around. To me (and the rest of the band) it is so much better.

Maybe the "quality" of sound is as good or better in the RCF, but somehow that seems less important than the "feel".

I'm not worried about DI out to the PA sounding a little different. The 2x12 custom sounds similar enough. I can use the RCF for sound reinforcement if I need to.

I'd rather tweak other aspects of my tone than IRs etc. And/or tweak my guitar playing.

 

[AdamCook]

I do both.

I feel traditional guitar cab is still the best way to go to get the on-stage feel and thump that I'm used to having behind me on stage. I use a hefty Avatar 2x12.

Instead of mic'ing the cab I run direct to FOH because I think it gives me a more consistent tone than mic'ing. I also generally have some of the direct tone mixed into a front stage monitor so what I hear from my position on stage is a mix of monitor and guitar cab in rear. For me, this gives me the best stage mix and also assures that I have a consistently high quality signal going out to the PA mains every night.

 

[Warrior]

If I had to use a 4x12 for looks but was happy with my FRFR, I would just carry an empty 4x12 to the gig for looks and continue using the FRFR for my monitor.

 

[jhuggins]

so when you use a cab/poweramp defeating the cab and sending the cab plus signal to FOH does that mean you can not place any fx after the cab and they be heard by the FOH?

 

[tubetonez]

so when you use a cab/poweramp defeating the cab and sending the cab plus signal to FOH does that mean you can not place any fx after the cab and they be heard by the FOH?

Sort of vice-versa. Most choose to use Output 1's XLR's for FOH. The FX Loop block is inserted just before the cab block, which sends through Output 2 to your stage rig. So any FX placed after the cab block would only be heard in FOH, not thru your stage rig. But you can route things in many different ways.

 

[The Shredding Hand]

so when you use a cab/poweramp defeating the cab and sending the cab plus signal to FOH does that mean you can not place any fx after the cab and they be heard by the FOH?

Sort of vice-versa. Most choose to use Output 1's XLR's for FOH. The FX Loop block is inserted just before the cab block, which sends through Output 2 to your stage rig. So any FX placed after the cab block would only be heard in FOH, not thru your stage rig. But you can route things in many different ways.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand, if you run the XLR output 1 to either the Atomic or to the K12s for instance, don't both of these speaker/cabs have an XLR out/thru that essentially sends the same signal that you're getting from the Axe and thus you could use this for FOH, right?

 

[Sixstring]

so when you use a cab/poweramp defeating the cab and sending the cab plus signal to FOH does that mean you can not place any fx after the cab and they be heard by the FOH?

Sort of vice-versa. Most choose to use Output 1's XLR's for FOH. The FX Loop block is inserted just before the cab block, which sends through Output 2 to your stage rig. So any FX placed after the cab block would only be heard in FOH, not thru your stage rig. But you can route things in many different ways.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand, if you run the XLR output 1 to either the Atomic or to the K12s for instance, don't both of these speaker/cabs have an XLR out/thru that essentially sends the same signal that you're getting from the Axe and thus you could use this for FOH, right?

Yup...

 

[tubetonez]

so when you use a cab/poweramp defeating the cab and sending the cab plus signal to FOH does that mean you can not place any fx after the cab and they be heard by the FOH?

Sort of vice-versa. Most choose to use Output 1's XLR's for FOH. The FX Loop block is inserted just before the cab block, which sends through Output 2 to your stage rig. So any FX placed after the cab block would only be heard in FOH, not thru your stage rig. But you can route things in many different ways.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand, if you run the XLR output 1 to either the Atomic or to the K12s for instance, don't both of these speaker/cabs have an XLR out/thru that essentially sends the same signal that you're getting from the Axe and thus you could use this for FOH, right?

Correct, the question I responded to was about running a PA/CAB not FRFR.

FWIW, I like using Out2 for my stage FRFR rig. 1/4" to XLR cables work fine for this, no FX loop block needed just Copy Out 1 > Out 2. The reason I like this, I can adjust my stage volume and FOH volume separately from the Axe, as well as EQ each separately via the global EQ.

One thing about FRFR rigs, it seems that a big majority are using powered speakers. There is a considerably wider selection of passive FRFR cabs. A power amp gives you the flexibility to run FRFR or traditional guitar cabs.

 

[tonecrazy]

Correct, the question I responded to was about running a PA/CAB not FRFR.

FWIW, I like using Out2 for my stage FRFR rig. 1/4" to XLR cables work fine for this, no FX loop block needed just Copy Out 1 > Out 2. The reason I like this, I can adjust my stage volume and FOH volume separately from the Axe, as well as EQ each separately via the global EQ.

One thing about FRFR rigs, it seems that a big majority are using powered speakers. There is a considerably wider selection of passive FRFR cabs. A power amp gives you the flexibility to run FRFR or traditional guitar cabs.

Agreed 100%

I just bought a Randall rt2/50. It is unbelievable!!! I am running into my guitar cab right now, but I also know I will have the full flexibiltiy to buy one of those atomic passive wedges if I want. And I may!!