FRFR in a VERY loud band setting?!?

S

s.fitzsimmons

Inspired
Anyone doing this with great success?

Typically I rock the AxeFx at home and a 100W tube head at practice. I've had my AxeFx there with a Matrix 1000 driving a pair of 4x12's and it's loud enough. Wouldn't mind ditching that for a powered wedge or Atomic CLR. Would that be able to "keep up".
 
Dramelot said:
Boost your mids
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It's not really an eq question, I have a handle on that. It's a pure volume question. The band is VERY loud. A stupid amount of volume for a 14x14 room. Loud drummer, Marshall full stack, Ampeg SVT and 810, etc. Would showing up with something like a CLR be the equivalent of thinking I could keep up volume wise as bringing in a tiny practice amp? I just don't have a point of reference for the FRFR products.
 
Im sure it would be fine on the floor, but I would prop it up somewhere above eye level and it would work just fine.
 
I played with the atomic reactor powered cab. Just one. We play loud and I felt it didn't keep up as well as playing my JCM 800 2204 into a 4x12 or 2x12 for that matter.
I think if I had a couple it might have worked out well.

I would imagine the Axe FX and the Matrix into a 2x12 would also be fine, but I guess that is not really the question you were asking.
 
It is pretty hard to break the laws of physics. 8 - 12" speakers at maximum output can move more air than 1 - 12". There is more to it than just that, (speaker sensitivity, enclosure type etc.) but in the end, moving as much air with 1 -12" as you can with 8 - 12" is quite a stretch.
 
MyK8 holds its own with the other guitarist's Marshall DSL half stack. We're pretty loud (too loud IMO)and I have no issues being heard.
 
Turn down. I've done the ridiculously loud thing (audience literally getting as far away from the stage as possible loud) and you'd be amazed at how much better you'll sound if you turn down to reasonable levels. Your ears will thank you, your audience will thank you, and sound guys (and gals) will actually make an effort to make you sound good.
 
Thanks for all the advice and concern. Trust me, I fully understand the practical and health implications of high volume. I personally take the proper precautions, everyone else not so much. This is just one of those bands that I play with from time to time and am trying to justify the FRFR route by having it fit the bill for everything that I do

I'm not much of a PA guy, but I know that speakers in a FRFR cab will be more efficient and need less power to drive them. Just trying to make sure that 250w of something like a CLR would keep up with a tube amp and inefficient speakers.
 
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IIRC Jay has posted before that solid state amps 5 times more powerful than tube power is a rough equivalent, and given that you will be using solid state with FRFR and that the speakers have roughly the same efficiency *over electric guitar frequencies*, you will be in the ball park with a good quality 500W+ FRFR solution.

This is also my experience using an RCF 322A and Matrix 800 live and loud. It has better clean headroom of course, because the point of running high powered SS FRFR is that it's not being pushed into overdrive, it's cleanly reproducing a modelled tone. I'd also agree that FRFR doesn't have quite the same sensation of being surrounded by the tone of a saturated tube amp and stack, often described on forums with vague terms such as "in the room tone" and "moving air".

One thing that's critical to the tone of an FRFR solution is how it handles being asked to deliver more that it can give, because this WILL occur at times in an over-loud band. (I'm interested to know how the CLR manages this). Good solutions will limit volume cleanly to protect amp and speakers, and the compression is a clear sign for a reality check "whoa, that was fun, but let's turn down a bit".
 
Atomic is claiming 120dB continuous, I would grab a sound meter and measure the volume in the room with out you playing and see what you get. Personally I agree with others and get a new band or at least get them to turn down / play softer. If you have to play as loud as a Jet engine at full throttle to keep up all you hear is indistinguishable noise anyway.
 
I used 2 QSC K10's and then a pair of K12's, and I fell short in this regard. Mainly because I was playing in dropped tunings, and the practice space was very open, and I think I was losing a lot of volume compared to the drums and other guitarist using a 4x12 and tube amp because he was more directional that I was... Idk. Didn't work though for me. I was clipping out trying to keep up volume wise. Now with a 4x12 it's perfect, if not better. I know my band plays too loud to compensate for the poor acoustics of my practice space, but what can I do. the volume doesn't hurt my ears though, so there's that.
 
The louder you play, the more mistakes you hide. Unfortuanly those mistakes comes through in a PA. So it might sound tight and great on rehersals, but it falls trough a PA. I´ve heard this many times, with many bands.... just my 243 cents ...
 
I had some of the same fear as about not being loud enough when I first got the Axe Fx a few months back. My band is SUPER loud...Just for reference we are a trio - guitar/keys, bass, and drums. Our drummer hits ridiculously hard and the bass is running thru an 8x10 with a big pedalboard full or fuzzes, whammy,etc. massive distorted bass tone.

Well, I had to get the Axe for health reasons (weight/portability) and I sought out a compact speaker solution that would be loud enough for practice. I ended up getting a pair of QSC K10s. While I think I could do better (with spending more money of course) they are pretty decent.

Now the following few points are the most important part. First, you gotta tweak patches at practice volume, and really mess around with your sounds with the FRFR speakers that you settle on. It took me a while - I'm sure you know this but just thought I would mention it...

Second, and this is important - the best way for me to be heard and get the optimal mix at practice is to run the monitor on my side standing vertically (not like a wedge) and tilted back slightly against the wall. I run the two K10s in stereo behind us as a backline on either side if the drums. The second K10 - I put on top of some cases nearr to the drummer so it is raised to ear level for him.

With this setup I am SUPER loud with more headroom than I have ever had. I have even had to turn DOWN which is weird - for years our the drummer I play with is always asking me to turn up...
 
Also, most of the sounds I do are heavily effected with reverb and delays. I run most of my sounds cleanish - cranked fender/2x12 cab sims. We play instrumental/ambient/heavy post rock kind of stuff.
 
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