FRFR boxes

Hi Sixstring

This information is awesome:-

Xitone, is designed to look and sound like a combo amp, work like a Full Range and / or a guitar speaker.
CLR is designed to be an actual reference monitor for stage use, very neutral,
Friedman is a full range floor monitor that sounds like a guitar cab,
Yamaha DXR 10 is designed to be a compact and lightweight Full Range monitor and is voiced a tad heavy in the mids,
Gemini 2 Designed to look like a combo amp that's sports a full range speaker.

So can a actual reference monitor for stage use that is very neutral sound like a combo unit?

If the Ax8 is designed to plug into the PA why are people buying combo units?

Are there any settings that need to done with the AX8 to compensate between reference monitors and the combo? ( assuming this can be done with the Ax8 )

Budget is it a issue concerning the box.
 
DanGuitarMan said:
Yes, and using my speakers primarily as near field wedges, I definitely notice a difference between coax and non.
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As should be expected, if your tweeter is at a different physical height than the woofer, and your listening from 3 feet away, that makes a very significant difference with regards to the "sweet spot" and how high your seating height is etc.

I use Prosonus Sceptre coaxial monitors in my home studio and I noticed an improvement in stereo imaging over my previous Mackies.


Its kind of common sense really, at 3 feet away, moving a tweeter say 7 inches above the woofer is a large percentage. Now, if we are listening to a PA speaker from say 30 feet away, well then a foot or even two distance doesn't matter much at all, thus why we don't see many coaxial PA systems.

I probably wouldn't buy another pair of nearfields that aren't coaxial though
 
Axecrazy1959 said:
Hi Sixstring

This information is awesome:-

Xitone, is designed to look and sound like a combo amp, work like a Full Range and / or a guitar speaker.
CLR is designed to be an actual reference monitor for stage use, very neutral,
Friedman is a full range floor monitor that sounds like a guitar cab,
Yamaha DXR 10 is designed to be a compact and lightweight Full Range monitor and is voiced a tad heavy in the mids,
Gemini 2 Designed to look like a combo amp that's sports a full range speaker.

So can a actual reference monitor for stage use that is very neutral sound like a combo unit?

If the Ax8 is designed to plug into the PA why are people buying combo units?

Are there any settings that need to done with the AX8 to compensate between reference monitors and the combo? ( assuming this can be done with the Ax8 )

Budget is it a issue concerning the box.
Click to expand...

I will try to answer your questions as best I can so please take what I post with a grain of salt there are a grip of other members that know a lot more that I do so here it goes!

First off you need to get your head around the fact that you are going to be listing to a mic'd guitar speaker if you decide to use an FRFR unit in conjunction with cab sims. If you are familiar with that type of tone your half the way there as to what to expect sound wise.


Can the Xitone M-Britt sound like a combo on stage?

I haven't personally demoed one but all the reports say it has that open back vibe going on so based on that information I would have to say yes! Maybe someone that owns one can chime in on that question to provide you with a first person answer.

Can a reference monitor sound like a combo?

I would have to say not really which is why the M-Britt is so popular! you kind of get the best of both worlds, FR if you want it with open back or closed!. The CLR with running a preset with an open back I/R is not going to have the vibe of an open back cab that has sound firing in the opposite direction.

As to settings to run both types of solutions it will depend on how you dial in you presets! there are a ton of vids on how to do this and the one thing that the AX8 has a plethora of and that's EQ options! so tuning in your sounds to fit eithersoultion is not a problem.

Why people are buying combo units?...

well I guess they like that vib on stage, I don't know how else to explain it. It's a very personal deal as too how you want to monitor your stage or bedroom sounds. I prefer a closed back cab sound much tighter bass and faster response so for me IR choices are endless.

Budget!

Buy the best you can afford! if your wanting to go CLR or Xitone you know right off the batt how much your going to have to spend unless you go used!

With digital units that use amp and cab sims especially those that use IR's the speaker is going to be the last thing in your signal chain... Food for thought!

The term FRFR is loosely tossed around in fact most solutions I would just refer to as Full Range and not so much Flat Response unless there is unbiased data to back it up.

Now that's not saying that every prosumer box on the market is not flat there are a few but they can get very pricy! The most important part is does it sound good? I would also add beware of marketing hype


I personally have a CLR! probably considered to be one of the best solutions in the 1K price range. I also have a Seismic SAX 12M PW one of the what I would consider a budget powered wedge.

Both are Coaxial which I'm a very large fan of for close monitoring. I have giged the SAX several times without issue but it did have a problem when I first received it which was promptly rectified by Seismic and I have to say it's not a bad box for the money for whatever that's worth.

I'm sure there is more info I forgot to mention that others are sure to post so it's a learning curve for sure but it's a fun one!
 
Hi

Thank you again for the great information.

It seems that the AX8 with a reference monitor does NOT sound like a guitar combo.

You need a FRFR combo box.

Have anyone worked out how to program it so a reference monitor does sound like a guitar combo box like using a Xitone Michael Britt unit?
 
If you want your ax8 to sound like a combo amp, disable the cab modeling and send the signal into a guitar cabinet (adding power amp as needed)

It’s that simple and ultimately it’s the only solution. You want it to sound like a real speaker cabinet “in the room”, then use a speaker cabinet in the room

Anything else is the sound of a mic’d guitar cabinet, which while not better or worse, is just different

As is the sound of a real combo amp mic’d vs hearing the amp direct

People have posted this very question literally 1000’s of time and the answer is always the same, if you want the sound of a real cabinet “in the room”, then get a real cabinet, or “combo unit” as you tend to call it.
 
Hi

Thank you for the input.

So one could use the AX8 with a
Seymour Duncan PowerStage 700

Now the question what type of speaker boxes work best in this type of setup?
 
Axecrazy1959 said:
Hi

Just got my Ax8.

Need a speaker box. Many choices out there however if one does not play heavy metal or grunge music what is available.

So far I have read about these ones on the forum:-

1. Xitone Michael Britt
2. CLR neo
3. Friedman ASC 12
4. Yamaha DXR10
5. Gemini 2

What is the difference with the above FRFR boxes tone wise.

Cheers

Paul
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Paul, I think you will find that very few people have owned all 5 of those speakers. Chances are you will need to figure out what you can afford and just roll the dice. Are you in a gigging band? Are you in the US? Have you looked into in ear headphones? ... if you have a decent PA or playing at clubs with a good PA system you could bypass the FRFR speaker and just get in ears. I own a Xitone wedge and find it sounds really good, and crazy loud! I have not used the other options on your list.

p.s. I would ask your question in the amp forum, as you have a lot more Axe FX users out there who can share their experiances
 
Thinking about the xitones. I gig pretty regularly at a variety of sized venues. I am just used to having cabs behind me and my bass player likes having one on his side as well. After years of doing it this way it’s hard to change. I used to go through a Mesa 2:90 and cabs but the Mesa blew recently.

Are the Xitone powered speakers loud enough for this application (use like traditional back line)?

I want to start going direct to FOH as well.
 
I think it is inevitable that we will see more FRFR solutions designed for modelers...there are a whole lot of guitarist who are embracing the technology and utility derived from modeling technology...If a company like Head Rush / Alto can deliver a "reasonable" (anyone tried one out yet?) product for under $300 then it's just a matter of time before the far east is cranking them out like they do guitars and amps.
 
I saw on another post that the xitones sound more like a real guitar cab. I already own a matrix gt800. If I picked up a couple passive xitone wedges and created patches with those, would I have to worry about the foh sounding different?
 
LancerS said:
If a company like Head Rush / Alto can deliver a "reasonable" (anyone tried one out yet?) product for under $300...
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I don’t believe it’s shipping yet. I signed up for a notification on Sweetwater’s site, but haven’t received anything yet.
 
Hi badmagick

Mick from Xitone custom makes his gear.

Just call him and tell him exactly what you require.

I am sure he can guide you well since he is a player and maker.

Cheers
 
IMO, most of the options out there do better for low tuned, djent , metal and heavily distorted guitar. I play about 75% clean jazz stuff and many of the dedicated FRFR cabs sound boomy in the low mids.

The xitone cabs are an exception. They sound great for clean jazz, overdriven fusion, country, funk rhythm, classic rock, etc. And they are built like a tank.
 
Axecrazy1959 said:
Now the question what type of speaker boxes work best in this type of setup?
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The answer would be use whatever you have or buy whatever you need. You're going into a cab, with the power amps sims "on" and cab sims off. The 700 would work (maybe overkill) but any high power "clean" amp would work.

If you buy a tube power amp or go into the return of and existing amp then you would turn the amp sims off also and leave the preamp on unless you enjoy the way things sound with them on. You can try anything you want.
 
Axecrazy1959 said:
Hi badmagick

Mick from Xitone custom makes his gear.

Just call him and tell him exactly what you require.

I am sure he can guide you well since he is a player and maker.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I got in touch with him and ordered 2 passive wedges since I already own the matrix gt800. I am simply tired of rolling racks and 4x12’s. Love the look. Hate the load.
 
I have both CLR neo and Xitone M Britt. Main instrument violin. The Xitone is warmer, the CLR more transparent but a little colder
 
violindave said:
I have both CLR neo and Xitone M Britt. Main instrument violin. The Xitone is warmer, the CLR more transparent but a little colder
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To say the CLR is "Colder" would be incorrect, rather the CLR reveles your preset needs more low end to warm it up! That's the whole point of being transparent it neither adds or subtracts to the signal you have EQ'd.
 
I'm using the RCF NX-12SMA monitor which is another FRFR option. I run my AX8 directly into the RCF for band rehearsals and when dialing in sounds; and for live gigs I run the AX8 into the FOH system with guitar coming into the RCF through the monitor mix with vocals, etc.
 
So I have an RCF Nx-12SMA that has stopped working. I've had it for five years and got 100's and 100's of hours of playing out of it. I'm getting an estimate on fixing it but in the meantime I'm looking at the CLR.

My question is does the CLR not have an XLR in? It looks like only 1/4 inch. Does that mean that I would use the Axe-fx II's Unbalanced Output 1 L to the CLR instead of the Balanced Output 1?
 
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