FRFR backline

S

stereotactic

Experienced
Hello all, I am finally coming to the realization that I probably should go full FRFR for my backline. My rig of many years involved amps into dummy loads then into signal processing into the biggest, most neutral amps and speakers I could find. Aside from my love of tubes, the Axe is a natural progression and so far I am very impressed by it.

My main band is a loud instrumental 3pc, so my tone is as big as I can make it and I've been stereo since 1990. Does anybody have experience going from a 4x12 to the Matrix FR212 or another 2x12 FRFR?

The other thought I had was to look at full range 2 or 3 way PA cabinets. I guess the main issue with PA speakers is how wide and how far they are designed to throw. Is there such a thing as mid-field PA speakers? Has anybody else gone this route? Thanks in advance for any input...
 
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I made the switch some months ago . Going form a matrix into a 2x12 real cabinet to a full FRFR. I must say it was night and day difference for me in positive sense . Should have done it years ago :). I use the ASC 12 of Friedman.. It does the job for me perfectly, in combo with a FOH or just as the main for small venues without FOH
 
yves vanmeenen said:
I made the switch some months ago . Going form a matrix into a 2x12 real cabinet to a full FRFR. I must say it was night and day difference for me in positive sense . Should have done it years ago :). I use the ASC 12 of Friedman.. It does the job for me perfectly, in combo with a FOH or just as the main for small venues without FOH
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Thanks for the info, I presume you were not using the cabinet block with the 4x12 and are now doing so with the Matrix FR212? Was it easy to dial in the new sound, and how much of an improvement did you perceive using the cab block with the FR212?
 
yves vanmeenen said:
I made the switch some months ago . Going form a matrix into a 2x12 real cabinet to a full FRFR. I must say it was night and day difference for me in positive sense . Should have done it years ago :). I use the ASC 12 of Friedman.. It does the job for me perfectly, in combo with a FOH or just as the main for small venues without FOH
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Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Was there a big difference between the 2x12 guitar cab and the Friedman FRFR 1x12 in terms of volume/impact? And how easy was it to dial in the new sound?
 
stereotactic said:
Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Was there a big difference between the 2x12 guitar cab and the Friedman FRFR 1x12 in terms of volume/impact? And how easy was it to dial in the new sound?
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Dialing in tone when you go full FRFR is so much easier .. plus you can create much more variation in your tone. with a real cab it all sounds somewhat the same since the CAB determines for a big amount your sound. Plus you have to go loud to make the thing "resonante"...My ASC12 (you can use 2 of them if you want and go stereo) it goes more than loud enough for whatever I use it. Never went beyond half open...But of course a 4x12 or even 2x12 cab will go louder for sure ( more speakers will push more air for sure)...not sure if that is a good idea for your ears :) but as said with a real cab you need volume to make it sound..really good...with FRFR you get that vibe at normal volume...but when reading posts you will see that a lot of them swear by a real cab for their backend on stage..... for that magic "oomph" or whatever feel...I can understand the point..I must say that the asc12 does a good job as far as that is concerned...and taste...hard to discuss...its all about feel...
 
Understood, glad it was an easy transition.


Anybody have experience going from a 4x12 to a 2x12 FRFR?

Anybody using a small PA speaker for backline?
 
For a while I used one CLR Neo as backline, just for stage fill. It was loud enough, but I didn't need it to be as loud as a 4x12 for our purposes. The sweet spot is definitely wider than a 4x12. But don't expect to feel the same lovely air compression sensation of a 4x12 behind you.
 
Desmo808 said:
For a while I used one CLR Neo as backline, just for stage fill. It was loud enough, but I didn't need it to be as loud as a 4x12 for our purposes. The sweet spot is definitely wider than a 4x12. But don't expect to feel the same lovely air compression sensation of a 4x12 behind you.
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Thanks, yes that seems to be the consensus, 1x12 FRFR will not feel like traditional multiple driver guitar cabinet.

This is why I was asking if anyone went from a 4x12 to 2x12 FRFR, and how they compared feel wise. Any experience with this transition will be most appreciated...
 
Has anybody compared say a CLR to a PA speaker like the EV ETX-12P? Or any of the other EV powered portable 12" PA speakers?
 
Compared my CLR to my QSC K10. I would say no comparison. CLR is much flatter and CLeaRer! Mids are so much more defined. Vocals sound so much more natural. Guitars sound awesome! (As you would expect). As a result we use CLR's for our FOH (with subs). They sound amazing! And we get compliments on how clear our sound is all the time. The only downside (if it applies to you) is that because they have a wider dispersion, they don't seem to get as much sound to the back of the room as a narrow dispersion speaker might (such as the QSC). That can be a good or a bad thing depending on your application.
 
stereotactic said:
Has anybody compared say a CLR to a PA speaker like the EV ETX-12P? Or any of the other EV powered portable 12" PA speakers?
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Never tried the ETX, but based on the reviews it gets on PA forums, it should do well as FRFR.
There are only a handful of portable 2x12 FRFR options. You are much better off getting two 1x12 PA Speakers.
If you read through the section of the forum, you will see a ton of reviews/opinions on all of the 1x12 FRFR favorites.
CLR, RCF NX12ma and XiTone are some of the favorites of mine.
If you want stereo, and the push of a 4x12 cab....get a pair of quality PA boxes.
 
BBN said:
Never tried the ETX, but based on the reviews it gets on PA forums, it should do well as FRFR.
There are only a handful of portable 2x12 FRFR options. You are much better off getting two 1x12 PA Speakers.
If you read through the section of the forum, you will see a ton of reviews/opinions on all of the 1x12 FRFR favorites.
CLR, RCF NX12ma and XiTone are some of the favorites of mine.
If you want stereo, and the push of a 4x12 cab....get a pair of quality PA boxes.
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Thanks, I understand there are lots of 1x12 options, but my rig is stereo and spending more than 2k to get way less than the same volume as my 4x12's is not feasible. Hence the inquiry about the Matrix 2x12...
 
So I picked up a Matrix FR212 for cheap used. That thing coupled with the GT1000FX was a total game changer. I've rocked a Mesa oversized 4X12 for years and I couldn't be more pleased with this combo. It sounds fantastic. More power and thump than I could have hoped for. I heard a lot of hype on this combo and the rumors where true. It's the perfect marriage of FRFR tech and the old school "cab in the room feel" for me. Exactly what I was after for my style of heavier music.

IMG_5238.jpg
 
stereotactic said:
Thanks, I understand there are lots of 1x12 options, but my rig is stereo and spending more than 2k to get way less than the same volume as my 4x12's is not feasible. Hence the inquiry about the Matrix 2x12...
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Hence why I'm saying buy two 1x12 speakers....stereo and it will get you the same as a 4x12.
There was an Atomic CLR in the Forum For Sale Section for $550 last week....you can get a pair of CLRs on the used market for much less than 2k.
Nowhere did I state you would get "way less than the same volume as a 4x12"?
I been side by side with a Mesa 4x12 (I own 3 of them) and had no problem keeping up.
I've tried a 2x12 and it was fine, so give it a try and report back.
I have always found that two 1x12's has more versatility as far as placement and scaling the rig for the gig.
 
BBN said:
Hence why I'm saying buy two 1x12 speakers....stereo and it will get you the same as a 4x12.
There was an Atomic CLR in the Forum For Sale Section for $550 last week....you can get a pair of CLRs on the used market for much less than 2k.
Nowhere did I state you would get "way less than the same volume as a 4x12"?
I been side by side with a Mesa 4x12 (I own 3 of them) and had no problem keeping up.
I've tried a 2x12 and it was fine, so give it a try and report back.
I have always found that two 1x12's has more versatility as far as placement and scaling the rig for the gig.
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To be clear, I meant stereo, as in I have one 4x12 on both sides of the stage. So now we are talking about two 1x12s on each side of the stage, 4 total. I wasn't implying you said anything, it was my opinion that one 1x12 would not be comparable to my custom 4x12 Eminence Delta Pro loaded, closed back, tuned/ported, 1" birch ply cabinet which is very efficient/loud. Should have been more precise in my description.

Good to know a used CLR is 50% of new, thanks, but setting up 4 of them is certainly suboptimal. I just wish there were more 2x12 options, most powered PA cabinets are 1x12s or 1x15s, so this is a gap in an otherwise choice filled market...
 
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Chris Lang said:
So I picked up a Matrix FR212 for cheap used. That thing coupled with the GT1000FX was a total game changer. I've rocked a Mesa oversized 4X12 for years and I couldn't be more pleased with this combo. It sounds fantastic. More power and thump than I could have hoped for. I heard a lot of hype on this combo and the rumors where true. It's the perfect marriage of FRFR tech and the old school "cab in the room feel" for me. Exactly what I was after for my style of heavier music.

View attachment 48784
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Thanks for the info and pic, good to know you're happy with the results!
 
stereotactic said:
To be clear, I meant stereo, as in I have one 4x12 on both sides of the stage. So now we are talking about two 1x12s on each side of the stage, 4 total. I wasn't implying you said anything, it was my opinion that one 1x12 would not be comparable to my custom 4x12 Eminence Delta Pro loaded, closed back, tuned/ported, 1" birch ply cabinet which is very efficient/loud. Should have been more precise in my description.

Good to know a used CLR is 50% of new, thanks, but setting up 4 of them is certainly suboptimal. I just wish there were more 2x12 options, most powered PA cabinets are 1x12s or 1x15s, so this is a gap in an otherwise choice filled market...
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Ah...double 4x12 cabs. Four 1x12s would be a pain. But still curious if one CLR on each side of the stage would be enough?
What types of gigs (room size, number of people, type of music?) I understand you need to keep up with drums, but I know 2 CLRs can keep up with any drummer I've ever seen (unless the kit is mic'd).

One recommendation, maybe try and rent two QSC HPR112s. Those specifically because they throw a lot of sound and they are somewhat common in the rental market.
Take a pair of those to rehearsal, one on each side and see how it feels.
 
BBN said:
Ah...double 4x12 cabs. Four 1x12s would be a pain. But still curious if one CLR on each side of the stage would be enough?
What types of gigs (room size, number of people, type of music?) I understand you need to keep up with drums, but I know 2 CLRs can keep up with any drummer I've ever seen (unless the kit is mic'd).

One recommendation, maybe try and rent two QSC HPR112s. Those specifically because they throw a lot of sound and they are somewhat common in the rental market.
Take a pair of those to rehearsal, one on each side and see how it feels.
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We are a loud 3pc instrumental band, drummer is always mic'd, 100-1000 venues. Because I do a good bit of feedback and I'm stereo, stage sound is important. I'll look into renting the QSCs or something similar, good idea.
 
Have two CLR Neo's and I must say they will get extremely loud when paired and the sound is incredible. Much better than any backline I've ever used (including Marshall stacks). The Stereo field of the two CLRs reminds me of the first time I stood onstage w/a Hammond B3 player running two Leslie Cabs!
 
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