FM9 w/ IEM

rayneman

rayneman

Member
My long-time cover band is attempting to reduce stage volume. Moving to Fractal gear years ago certainly helped me in this regard, but I am still running one CLR onstage as my personal monitor so I can control my level without affecting mains or other stage monitors. I'd prefer to not lug this, but I have found that I need to have personal control (i.e. output 2) over my monitor, as stage volume seems to fluctuate over the course of a night due to a variety of reasons.

We have moved to IEMs and this appears to be working well for most. Based on my experiences so far I am not getting the perfect mix and do still need the ability to bring myself up and down as needed. Ideally, of course, this should not be an issue but it is what it is, and I am still looking for a way I can have control over my level in my ears. I know there are solutions to this where everyone has some type of personal mixing device, but that is not going to happen at this time.

SO - now to my question...we run mono, my IEM transmitter has two inputs and can be run stereo/mono. If I took the usual feed from the board in one input, and THEN another from Output 2 of my FM9, wouldn't I then have the ability to increase/decrease my level in my ears if needed? Is the output of the FM9 appropriate for direct into an IEM transmitter? This certainly doesn't seem like the way one should use IEMs, but I am trying to find a reason why it wouldn't work.

Wisdom from the group would be very much appreciated.
 
That would work, though it sets you up with the band mix in only one ear. Maybe a submix for your guitar?

First I would look at WHY you need to ride the volume for your guitar. Do you need to adjust it once or twice to get it right for the gig? Are there particular songs where you routinely need to adjust? Or is there a band member turning up during the gig? Each has a different solution, and none require you to ride the volume.

If there is simply no other way to resolve it, I would send OUT1 for FOH and OUT2 for band monitor. This lets you control OUT2 volume directly from your front-panel. Is it fair to assume that your band has a separate monitor mix?
 
The short answer is yes, you can control volume levels using Out1 and Out2 to adjust volume levels for each respective output. It isn't exactly the same as what you describe, but it is similar. I use a small Behringer mixer. It has two XLR inputs. I run FM9 Out1 into one of the Behringer XLR inputs. I run Out2 to front of house. I then get a monitor mix sent to a 2nd XLR input on my Behringer mixer. My IEM transmitter is connected to the mixer output. I can then adjust/balance both volume levels (Out1 from FM9 and Monitor mix) to suit. It works well for allowing me to make my own mix. But it does require a small mixer, which it sounds like you don't want to use. But if you can do a similar mix using your IEM transmitter inputs, then it should work well.
 
Interesting subject! I find myself in a similar position. We started using IEM's exclusively live and for rehearsals and the results onstage have been a mix of good and not so good. We are forced by our current IEM equipment limitations to share 2 mixes among 7 band members, so we have a "Vocalist" centered mix and a "Instrumentalist" centered mix. Not ideal - I thought when we started this we were all going to have our own mixes, but not possible for the time being.

I'd also like to put together a simple way of folding some of my FM9 signal into the band mix in my IEM's so I have a little more control on how much "ME" I am hearing. Doesn't really help me on my vocals, but if the group mix has enough of my vocal, that won't be an issue.
 
lscottk said:
The short answer is yes, you can control volume levels using Out1 and Out2 to adjust volume levels for each respective output. It isn't exactly the same as what you describe, but it is similar. I use a small Behringer mixer. It has two XLR inputs. I run FM9 Out1 into one of the Behringer XLR inputs. I run Out2 to front of house. I then get a monitor mix sent to a 2nd XLR input on my Behringer mixer. My IEM transmitter is connected to the mixer output. I can then adjust/balance both volume levels (Out1 from FM9 and Monitor mix) to suit. It works well for allowing me to make my own mix. But it does require a small mixer, which it sounds like you don't want to use. But if you can do a similar mix using your IEM transmitter inputs, then it should work well.
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Thanks for this.

I like this idea. I am not averse to a small device of my own (i.e. this Behringer mixer) and this makes sense. Using this setup (the mixer) would ensure I get everything in both ears, I think, while also allowing me the option of increasing or lowering my level within it. I realize that I cannot change (for example) the keyboard level in the band mix, but that isn't really necessary if I can manipulate my level.

Would you mind sharing the model of mixer you use?
 
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guitarno said:
Interesting subject! I find myself in a similar position. We started using IEM's exclusively live and for rehearsals and the results onstage have been a mix of good and not so good. We are forced by our current IEM equipment limitations to share 2 mixes among 7 band members, so we have a "Vocalist" centered mix and a "Instrumentalist" centered mix. Not ideal - I thought when we started this we were all going to have our own mixes, but not possible for the time being.

I'd also like to put together a simple way of folding some of my FM9 signal into the band mix in my IEM's so I have a little more control on how much "ME" I am hearing. Doesn't really help me on my vocals, but if the group mix has enough of my vocal, that won't be an issue.
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As you mention, you and I appear to be in the same situation. I like the idea of IEMs but so far the execution of it has not been awesome.
 
rayneman said:
Thanks for this.

I like this idea. I am not averse to a small device of my own (i.e. this Behringer mixer) and this makes sense. I accomplish this I was thinking some complicated setup was necessary where we all had control over each other's level in OUR mix. Using this setup (the mixer) would ensure I get everything in both ears, I think, while also allowing me the option of increasing or lowering my level within it. I realize that I cannot change (for example) the keyboard level in the band mix, but that isn't really necessary if I can manipulate my level.

Would you mind sharing the model of mixer you use?
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Sure - Model is Behringer Xenyx 802

Here is a link to model I use. https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pdp...881268&rNtt=Behringer Xenyx 802 Mixer&index=1

I am only finding used models online. I checked the Behringer website and the current model is 802s. I'm not sure what is different in the newer model. The link above is to a used version of what I'm using. I wouldn't use it for recording, but it works great for this use case. MF has two used ones, both under $50.
 
rayneman said:
My long-time cover band is attempting to reduce stage volume. Moving to Fractal gear years ago certainly helped me in this regard, but I am still running one CLR onstage as my personal monitor so I can control my level without affecting mains or other stage monitors. I'd prefer to not lug this, but I have found that I need to have personal control (i.e. output 2) over my monitor, as stage volume seems to fluctuate over the course of a night due to a variety of reasons.

We have moved to IEMs and this appears to be working well for most. Based on my experiences so far I am not getting the perfect mix and do still need the ability to bring myself up and down as needed. Ideally, of course, this should not be an issue but it is what it is, and I am still looking for a way I can have control over my level in my ears. I know there are solutions to this where everyone has some type of personal mixing device, but that is not going to happen at this time.

SO - now to my question...we run mono, my IEM transmitter has two inputs and can be run stereo/mono. If I took the usual feed from the board in one input, and THEN another from Output 2 of my FM9, wouldn't I then have the ability to increase/decrease my level in my ears if needed? Is the output of the FM9 appropriate for direct into an IEM transmitter? This certainly doesn't seem like the way one should use IEMs, but I am trying to find a reason why it wouldn't work.

Wisdom from the group would be very much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Which board/mixer are you using as a band for the IEM/monitor mix?
 
In my band, most players use the IEMS (both at gigs and at rehearsals). We use the Behringer X32 Rack. Everything on stage feeds a splitter which feeds the FOH and the monitor mixes, which feed individual transmitters. Each of us have iphone/ipad control over our own on "personal" mix. You can save multiple settings for different uses. We use up to five stereo mixes and you can accommodate more than that. A lot of local bands I know use this. Not exactly cheap but worth every penny to use. There is a learning curve.

Edit: you dont need to have a personal device/mix for each, you can set it up to share one or more mixes.
 
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We've run IEM for all my bands for around 4 years now. We use an AllenHeath QUPAC all with our own mixes.

We don't even use wireless recievers any more, we just use cables from a multi headphone amp. It works great for both live and rehearsals.

Prior to that, we used normal monitoring but my keyboard player used headphones fed from a cheap superlux HA unit.

He could blend his direct stereo keyboard sound with the monitor mix from the desk.

You could send your FM9 to foh as normal, use the copy to output 2 function, send output2 into the superlux unit (or a small mixer) and then combine it with the mono monitor feed.

That way, you get your guitar in stereo and everything else in mono all with separate balance control.
 
Unless you are using an analog board, you should be able to tweak your monitor mix on a cell phone. Either way, my suggestion would be to find a Shure P4M line mixer

https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=shure p4m

Run the FM9 output you're sending to FOH through channel 1, and it has a "thru" output that would go to FOH. Your bandmix goes into any other channel. Stereo TRS outputs of the mixer go to your IEM, L and R. Now you have knobs to adjust levels for your guitar and your band mix AND you have pan controls. I set my guitar slightly to one side and bandmix slightly to the other. Helps hear "you" without having to make it louder.

Also there's room to grow...if you have an acoustic, you can run that through another channel and "thru" to FOH. If you decide to run your FM9 in stereo, you've got space.
 
JoKeR III said:
Which board/mixer are you using as a band for the IEM/monitor mix?
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Hmmmm...great question. One of them is something called an "XR-18" or similar with some rack amps? The guy uses a tablet with it and has all sorts of problems related to WiFi. The other, and the one we use most often is a Midias M32 I think. I know basically nothing about this stuff, but I don't think either of them has or is a dedicated monitoring mixing thing. The bigger unit, this Midias, seems to allow for more discrete mixes, or the guy who owns it is more knowledgeable. Probably the latter.
 
As others mentioned, you could use a line mixer. However, depending on your IEM system, you don't need a mixer if you're running Mono. Just make sure you don't have any of your FM9 signal coming from the board into the input you get everyone else in.

You can then use FM9 Output 2 to adjust level, but you have a higher chance of clipping the input into your IEM system.

Some IEM systems (I believe both the Shure PSM300 and Sennheiser XSW systems) have a "focus" mode when you're running in Mono. Basically, it lets you use the Pan function on your system to adjust the blend between the two systems. This affects both Left and Right equally. That would be "safer" with the levels than using the FM9 Output 2, but it might be less convenient. Might want to look into your IEM system's features to see if this is possible.
 
rayneman said:
Hmmmm...great question. One of them is something called an "XR-18" or similar with some rack amps? The guy uses a tablet with it and has all sorts of problems related to WiFi. The other, and the one we use most often is a Midias M32 I think. I know basically nothing about this stuff, but I don't think either of them has or is a dedicated monitoring mixing thing. The bigger unit, this Midias, seems to allow for more discrete mixes, or the guy who owns it is more knowledgeable. Probably the latter.
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I have used Midas M32, Behringer X32 (rack and other form factors), and Behringer XR18. I actually use the XR18 for my original band's IEM rig. I STRONGLY recommend using an external WiFi router. If you do that, the mixer is VERY capable for IEMs. The only limitation is the amount of outputs if you want to do Stereo since there are only 6 monitor outs. My band has 4 people, so me and the other guitar player run stereo so we can pan our guitars to get separation from each other while the bassist and drummer runs Mono.
 
RockYoWorld said:
As others mentioned, you could use a line mixer. However, depending on your IEM system, you don't need a mixer if you're running Mono. Just make sure you don't have any of your FM9 signal coming from the board into the input you get everyone else in.

You can then use FM9 Output 2 to adjust level, but you have a higher chance of clipping the input into your IEM system.
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I just performed a test with my FM9, running out 2 directly into my IEM rig and it sounds pretty bad...very crispy and distorted. YUCK. Very much not something I'd like to hear. I have not yet been 100% happy with my tone via in-ears when running from our system(s) but it was 100% better than what I'm hearing direct from my FM9. Perhaps I have something on the FM9 set incorrectly, but it sounds great through Outs 1/2 into our system and/or my CLR, both live and here at home.
 
rayneman said:
Hmmmm...great question. One of them is something called an "XR-18" or similar with some rack amps? The guy uses a tablet with it and has all sorts of problems related to WiFi. The other, and the one we use most often is a Midias M32 I think. I know basically nothing about this stuff, but I don't think either of them has or is a dedicated monitoring mixing thing. The bigger unit, this Midias, seems to allow for more discrete mixes, or the guy who owns it is more knowledgeable. Probably the latter.
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With either of these two you should be able to run your IEM monitors from them giving everyone control over their mix with the M32-Q on a tablet or smartphone.
 
toesalad said:
I use one of these with my FM9:

https://www.artproaudio.com/product/mymonitorii/

It allows me to blend a feed (stereo or mono) from a mixer with an output from my FM9 and then blend the two. It also can be powered by a 9v battery, making it super simple to setup.
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This is also interesting. So, like others who have mentioned line mixers, you are using this device to blend a feed from the system AND a feed from your FM9 that goes to your IEM transmitter? So if needed, you can increase your guitar level in the overall mix you’re getting? I like that this is a small unit and can run off a 9V.
 
rayneman said:
This is also interesting. So, like others who have mentioned line mixers, you are using this device to blend a feed from the system AND a feed from your FM9 that goes to your IEM transmitter? So if needed, you can increase your guitar level in the overall mix you’re getting? I like that this is a small unit and can run off a 9V.
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Correct. For my simple setup, I am using it as my headphone amplifier… but yes, it actually lets you blend three sources… a mic, an instrument/line input, and a stereo/mono monitor mix. You can then set the levels of the mic and instrument inputs to augment the mix. It then has two outputs, a 1/4” and 1/8” TRS that can be used to power headphones or send to your IEM transmitter.
 
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