FM9 "Gig View" recommendations?

[Jim Amsden]

I have a fairly complex goto patch that has quite a few effects. I use 3 scenes for gain staging: clean, crunch, drive, but most of the effects are applicable to any scene and are on footswitches. Some of the less used effects are on tap and hold switches. I've got this working pretty well using a custom hybrid layout. But sometimes I tap a little too long on a switch and get the hold function by mistake. When playing and singing at the same time, sometimes it's hard to notice this, or I notice but can't get to turning it off as I'm too busy. Sometimes it's easy to get confused about what effect is on. I find myself wishing for a "gig view" like on Helix LT or Quad Cortex where you can easily see the state of all blocks. Has anyone used the zoomed out grid view on FM9 for this? Or do you have a better approach?

 

[vangrieg]

Or do you have a better approach?

I don’t know about better, but have you tried using more scenes instead of controlling effects individually? You probably have, but playing, singing and thinking about toggling effects is just way too much, IMO. You have 8 scenes, 9 switches and hapless switching, so your performance layout can have 8 scene selectors and one switch can toggle between two presets if you have more than 8 effect state combinations. Depending on how you use all that, placing scenes in a certain pattern can help making it all easy to remember and use, I think.

 

[Jim Amsden]

I prefer the flexibility of stomp over the constraints of scenes as I don't necessarily play songs exactly the same way every time. Keeps it interesting and stimulates creativity. Stomps have AND semantics, you can freely mix them as you wish. Scenes have OR semantics, you can only have one at a time.

I do have a few songs in a set list that do use scenes for every song part. And that is very convenient because the scribble strips and the FM9 Home view do clearly show what scene you are in. I'm just looking for something more flexible for the general case. i.e., what you could easily do with a pedalboard into a traditional guitar amp where you can easily see the state of every pedal.

 

[vangrieg]

Well in that case you may still have two layouts for your effects, with one switch dedicated to switching between them - if I understood correctly, you have issues with long press.

You probably know without me telling you that there’s no gig view, so zoomed out grid is the only option, I believe. You can probably modify your preset in a way to have blocks close to each other if they aren’t, but that’s about it?

 

[unix-guy]

I've just created a more pedalboard-like setup for an improv focused gig I have coming up.

I have 1 layout with my scenes and "core" controls.

That layout has a switch to an "effects" layout.

Oh the effects layout I have the same switch set to return to the main layout.

This is pretty flexible and works well for me.

 

[Jim Amsden]

My initial approach was to use two layouts and avoid the hold switches. But I found the multiple presses: switch to MORE EFFECTS, toggle the effect on/off, switch back to EFFECTS was not convenient and wasted a switch. I found using the hold switches for less used effects was more convenient and reliable in a gig situation.

 

[strabes]

I use 2 per-preset layouts: one with PP 1-8 and one with 9-16. The same button on both layouts toggles to the other layout, and holding it takes me to scenes. The master shortcut opens my presets layout. When I select a preset a layout link automatically goes to the scenes layout which has one button for my first PP layout. This setup works great for me in live and studio.

 

[vangrieg]

I found using the hold switches for less used effects was more convenient and reliable in a gig situation.

Did you try using layout links to go back to the main layout automatically ?

 

[voes]

Not trying to hijack the discussion. But have you thought about an external Midi Device to give you extra buttons? This will prevent the step dancing a lot.



More info on https://voes.be/conn_fractal.html

 

[unix-guy]

My initial approach was to use two layouts and avoid the hold switches. But I found the multiple presses: switch to MORE EFFECTS, toggle the effect on/off, switch back to EFFECTS was not convenient and wasted a switch. I found using the hold switches for less used effects was more convenient and reliable in a gig situation.

Consider the use of Layout Links for your MORE EFFECTS switches that will return automatically to EFFECTS once they perform their normal function.

You still have more button presses than Hold but it'll be 1 less.

 

[Moke]

Maybe adding an FC-6 would work for you.

• Easy to connect, 1 short XLR cable
• Easy to integrate and program
• Keep it fixed on a single Layout
• Use the 3 bottom switches for your 3 'gain staging' scenes
• Use the other 3 switches for Tap 'Tempo/Tuner', Toggle between Effects and Presets Layouts on the FM9? And maybe to toggle between two effects layouts on the FM9?

 

[Moke]

Another option is to make use of some 'Stand-in' switches for any global switching that doesn't really require LED indication. 'Tap Tempo/Tuner', 'Layout' selection/toggling/Increment/etc.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

I use 2 per-preset layouts: one with PP 1-8 and one with 9-16. The same button on both layouts toggles to the other layout, and holding it takes me to scenes. The master shortcut opens my presets layout. When I select a preset a layout link automatically goes to the scenes layout which has one button for my first PP layout. This setup works great for me in live and studio.

Is the master shortcut the one where you do the rocker motion with the two switches on the right? If so, I did not realize you can change that master shortcut to go to something different! How is that done?

I do a similar approach to you, but the master shortcut thing would be cool to do!

Also, do you have a tap tempo, or do your presets already have the tempo information pre programmed?

 

[Moke]

Is the master shortcut the one where you do the rocker motion with the two switches on the right? If so, I did not realize you can change that master shortcut to go to something different! How is that done?

I do a similar approach to you, but the master shortcut thing would be cool to do!

Also, do you have a tap tempo, or do your presets already have the tempo information pre programmed?

I believe that the Master Layout shortcut itself can't be edited. But you can edit that Master Layout.

 

[Jim Amsden]

I do use tap tempo for delay and tremolo time. I did try using layout links and that does reduce by one switch. But the end result isn't much different than using Hold switches - when you're in your master layout, you still can't see the state of the effects in the MORE EFFECTS layout. So this doesn't really solve the problem.

I did try using an MC8 and that certainly works. But it's another thing to setup and connect, and its display is a bit hard to see during a gig. I used lower case and upper case to distinguish switch states. It works, but its not a great solution.

I also have an FC-6 and use that when I have enough space. That works well and is a good solution.

But I think it would be useful to be able to create a customize gig view, similar to the performance pages and FC layouts so you can see what you want to see clearly during a gig. There's a lot of space for blocks on the grid and supported by the FM9 capacity, but limited switches to cover them all. A gig view might be a nice addition.

 

[vangrieg]

But I think it would be useful to be able to create a customize gig view, similar to the performance pages and FC layouts so you can see what you want to see clearly during a gig.

Well that would be a wishlist item if it doesn’t exist already, and I suspect (but of course don’t know for sure) that it won’t be possible in the current generation.

About the only way I see a “gig view” can be implemented is coding it yourself if you can do it. There’s a library built by one of our forum members for Arduino (or Pi?), but it’s relatively easy to redo for, say JUCE framework, and run as an application on an iPad (or an old phone). It would involve coding in C++, registering as a developer. Thankfully, this part of MIDI implementation is documented and supported as part of 3rd party midi spec, so wouldn’t require reverse engineering, which is hard.

That’s what I would do if I needed it anyway.

 

[strabes]

Is the master shortcut the one where you do the rocker motion with the two switches on the right?

Yes

I did not realize you can change that master shortcut to go to something different! How is that done?

You can't change which layout the shortcut goes to, I just overwrote the master layout with my presets layout.

do you have a tap tempo, or do your presets already have the tempo information pre programmed?

Originally I had tap/tuner as the top right footswitch on both of my PP layouts, but I figured that since I only use tap tempo once per song (and have a tuner built into my GLXD16+), I would value one more PP switch more than the tap/tuner on my primary PP layout. So on my primary layout I have instant access to 8 PP switches plus their hold functions, and if I need to tap tempo it's just a single press away on my secondary PP layout.

 

[GMGM]

But sometimes I tap a little too long on a switch and get the hold function by mistake.

I had to disable the hold function on my tap tempo switch for the same reason.


So for example, my approach is not wildly different from yours. I live in a single preset, switching between 4 amp channels as a means of accessing multiple levels of gain.

PER PRESET SWITCHING AS FOLLOWS...
1: Select & Toggle AMP channel 1 & 2 (Clean & Edge of Breakup) [LONG PRESS DISABLED]
2: Select & Toggle between AMP channel 3 & (Crunch & Lead) [LONG PRESS DISABLED]
this is 4 levels of gain on 2 switches, but I have experimented with a LONG press option to allow 3 amp channels on one switch
3: DRIVE 1 Bypass [LONG PRESS to change drive channel]
4: COMP 1 bypass [LONG PRESS DISABLED]
5: PHASER bypass [LONG PRESS to bypass TREM]
6: TAP TEMPO [LONG PRESS DISABLED]
7: CHORUS bypass [LONG PRESS to activate tuner]
8: DELAY 1: Bypass [LONG PRESS to change delay channels 1 thru 4]
9: VERB 1: bypass [LONG PRESS to change reverb channels 1 thru 4]

And behind the scenes, I have REVERB 2 setup as "always on" set to a small room ambience to make the in-ear mix a little more tolerable. With a tweak to allow a remote switch to enable an EHX Freeze type of reverb hold effect.

I seem to make some kind of change to the layout every couple days, but thanks to the LEDs and labelling, I've managed to NOT screw up any patch changes on stage (yet).

I know in the 'per preset' layout you can customize the label. I assume the same is possible for other layouts, but I mostly stay in per preset mode. So for my switches that are changing channel, I tell it to display the short block name plus channel (for example DRV1).

 

[Thenewexhibit]

Yes

You can't change which layout the shortcut goes to, I just overwrote the master layout with my presets layout.

Originally I had tap/tuner as the top right footswitch on both of my PP layouts, but I figured that since I only use tap tempo once per song (and have a tuner built into my GLXD16+), I would value one more PP switch more than the tap/tuner on my primary PP layout. So on my primary layout I have instant access to 8 PP switches plus their hold functions, and if I need to tap tempo it's just a single press away on my secondary PP layout.

Got ya! So you just edited the Master Layout to be the Preset Layout? I'll have to look into that! And that's cool to have a tap on the second PP Layout you created so you can get to it if need be! If I'm not mistaken, the Presets Layout has a tap as well, no?

On another topic, how do you like the Shure GLXD16+? Do you find it reliable?

 

[strabes]

So you just edited the Master Layout to be the Preset Layout?

Yep

the Presets Layout has a tap as well, no?

I don’t remember the defaults, but mine has 5 presets, bank up/down, a button to take me to PP layout 1, and one for scenes.

how do you like the Shure DLXD16+? Do you find it reliable?

Rock solid. Been using it since it came out and the older version (without the plus) for many years before that. Obviously that’s just for local stuff where I’m using my pedalboard style rig. On the road we use ULXD with racks.