FM9 Expression Pedal?

[TSJMajesty]

Thank you for clarification. This also seemed to be the case with my FM3.

What I'd hoped to do was create a specific modifier that could be used separately across each scene with various channels within the control feature. Thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding, what I needed to describe was the control feature within the wah and formant block.

I read a lot of these threads with questions so I can learn. Can I ask what you're actually trying to do, in the real world? Like, what are you trying to make happen while you're playing a song? I'm asking because I'm trying to follow this action you're wanting to do, but isn't possible, but I don't understand what the benefit would be in an actual gigging (or recording) situation. Sometimes people ask about doing a certain action, that's not possible, but there are other ways of easily making what it is they really want to accomplish, happen. But it might be a tiny bit less convenient for them.

 

[REDD]

If you are using Auto -engage, can't you have a channel in the Wah controller set to none in Auto-engage so it won't activate on that channel?

 

[bleujazz3]

I read a lot of these threads with questions so I can learn. Can I ask what you're actually trying to do, in the real world? Like, what are you trying to make happen while you're playing a song? I'm asking because I'm trying to follow this action you're wanting to do, but isn't possible, but I don't understand what the benefit would be in an actual gigging (or recording) situation. Sometimes people ask about doing a certain action, that's not possible, but there are other ways of easily making what it is they really want to accomplish, happen. But it might be a tiny bit less convenient for them.

Sure, I'll try, but you might wish to read the previous posts leading up to my thanking @unix-guy and @Rex for answering my question, once I'd provided the correct information.

I've spent limited time with my FM9 and have built a kind of kitchen-sink utility preset as my MAIN RIG, which consists of CLEAN, CRUNCH, and LEAD scenes.

While setting up my scenes I though it might be possible to include a wah and formant (per LT's Wah Tips & Tricks video) for one of the 3 scenes, the CRUNCH scene.

However, even though it is possible to place the wah block on 3 separate channels for each the 3 respective scenes, it is not possible to allow the wah block's "control" modifier (located in the wah block's controls main screen) to be placed on each channel within the modifier window. You need to select either ALL channels, or one channel. It is not possible to switch control modifier channels within the modifier window and have the wah sound across the 3 scenes on separate individual wah control channels (Must be either ALL, or Ch A, or Ch B, or Ch C, or Ch D). The and/or possibility doesn't jive at all.

My hope was to be able to do this, so the wah and formant could be set on each control modifier channel to be active, or bypassed for individual channels. The goal was to allow scene CRUNCH to enjoy an active wah and formant, while scenes CLEAN & LEAD, the wah/formant would be bypassed.

Unfortunately, what is described above is not possible with the control channel modifier, so I've accepted the fact that if wah and formant is to be used, it must be active at all times across the 3 scenes and bypassed when the EV-1 is set heel down.

This essentially provides (here's a good way of viewing things) wah and formant for all 3 scenes, whenever the mood strikes. I just need to remember that if the pedal is engaged, even slightly, I'll hear it. I might consider tightening the treadle's sweep so the pedal doesn't inadvertently loosen up over time and interfere with normal play.

Hope this answers your question regards real-world gigging scenarios. A friend of mine recently informed me that my usual open-mic venue has re-opened its doors now that they have enough waitstaff and workers to cover the venue's evening hours, which includes our local region's longest-running open-mic again. Looking forward to putting the chops in proper order and making it to my local open-mic soon.

 

[bleujazz3]

If you are using Auto -engage, can't you have a channel in the Wah controller set to none in Auto-engage so it won't activate on that channel?

It won't matter. It's still not possible to select individual control channel modifiers to more than one individual channel. You either select ALL, or one channel.

The auto-engage feature might be an interesting possibility, so I can't negate that.

This may be a good test example to experiment with. I'll check tomorrow afternoon and report back what I find to the forum. If auto-engage exhibits the same behavior as the control channel modifier, it won't happen. The upside might be setting the wah block to separate channels and seeing if auto-engage might work independently for each wah block channel...ay, there's the ticket...it seems a little suspect, but I'll not judge just yet until I've had a chance to do the research.

Either way, I'll check things out tomorrow afternoon and keep you posted.

 

[unix-guy]

If you want to use Wah and Formant with an expression pedal, and you're trying to just have them engaged only on a limited number of scenes, then what @REDD suggested is the simplest answer.

You can leave the modifier set to ALL and enable autoengage on both. When you use the expression pedal, the blocks will be enabled and when you put the pedal heel down (can also be set to toe down) they will go off.

This has the added benefit that you can then use them in ANY scene at your whim.

I'd like to stress the importance of clearly describing what you're trying to accomplish, as not doing that well leads to confusion and lots of questions.

After reading your reply to @TSJMajesty I'm actually still confused about why you're trying to manage the modifier on multiple channels if you only care about 1 scene. If you just Bypass the blocks in the other scenes it won't matter whether or not the parameters are being controlled or not because the blocks will be inactive.

 

[Moke]

Sounds to me that what you want to do is possible. First, let's clear things up a bit.

You want the Wah and Formant to 'Auto-Engage' only on scene 2 (Crunch). Then the Wah and Formant to remain bypassed in scenes 1 and 3 no mater the position of the expression pedal??

Also need to see the effect routing (or the preset) to advise about bypass modes.

 

[bleujazz3]

...After reading your reply to @TSJMajesty I'm actually still confused about why you're trying to manage the modifier on multiple channels if you only care about 1 scene. If you just Bypass the blocks in the other scenes it won't matter whether or not the parameters are being controlled or not because the blocks will be inactive...

This is where my problem resides. IIRC, it's not possible to bypass the wah block if it resides on the same channel across all 3 scenes. If one creates 3 scenes with a separate channel wah block for each scene, IIRC, one still can't bypass the wah block for whatever scenes you choose and expect it to remain active for the scene you'd like. It's because one must (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) select ALL or one CHANNEL within the control knob window (right-click to view modifier window).

Tell you what. Let me include LT's Wah video and also a SS of one of the scenes with the control modifier window. Will provide in a few minutes.

 

[bleujazz3]

This is my MAIN RIG 'CLEAN' scene. The control modifier is located in the rectangle dotted box, by right-clicking

Here's the control modifier screen. I've got Channel set to All. The original issue several posts back was that it is not possible to set the Channel within this window to separate channels for separate scenes. No way Jose. Been there too often and it's not possible.

 

[chris]

Is the multiplexer useful in this situation?

 

[bleujazz3]

Is the multiplexer useful in this situation?

Regards Delay? Could be, I'm trying to focus solely on wah for the time. I'll check back with the forum tomorrow. My computer is telling me I've reached my time limit for this evening.

 

[unix-guy]

This is where my problem resides. IIRC, it's not possible to bypass the wah block if it resides on the same channel across all 3 scenes. If one creates 3 scenes with a separate channel wah block for each scene, IIRC, one still can't bypass the wah block for whatever scenes you choose and expect it to remain active for the scene you'd like. It's because one must (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) select ALL or one CHANNEL within the control knob window (right-click to view modifier window).

Tell you what. Let me include LT's Wah video and also a SS of one of the scenes with the control modifier window. Will provide in a few minutes.

You can bypass any block on any scene except when the state of the bypass is controlled by a parameter OR when you have autoengage setup...

Based on the follow-up post you made, you have autoengage enabled.

In that case, you don't need to bypass anything. Simply move your pedal heel down and they will be off.

 

[chris]

Regards Delay? Could be, I'm trying to focus solely on wah for the time.

The multiplexer can isolate rows of signals per scene. Not a delay.

 

[Moke]

Two ways...

#1
Set the Wah block bypass mode to 'Thru'. Set the Formant block bypass mode to 'Mute', as it is in a parallel row.

Bypass the Wah and Formant blocks on scenes 1, 2, and 3. Setup the auto-engage control on the Wah and Formant blocks to only Channel 'A'. Now only channel 'A' of both blocks will respond to the expression pedal and 'auto-engage both blocks. The other channels will not respond to the expression pedal or auto-engage, and can be bypassed or active per scene.

Now set those two blocks to be on channel 'A' on scene 2. Then set those two blocks to be on channel 'B' on scenes 1 and 3. The expression pedal and Auto-engage will activate only while on channel 'A' of both blocks. (scene 2). The expression pedal and Auto-engage will NOT activate while on channel 'B' of both blocks. (scenes 1 and 3).

 

[bleujazz3]

You can bypass any block on any scene except when the state of the bypass is controlled by a parameter OR when you have autoengage setup...

Based on the follow-up post you made, you have autoengage enabled.

In that case, you don't need to bypass anything. Simply move your pedal heel down and they will be off.

This seems to be the easiest solution. But, I might not settle for that if @Moke has a better solution...

Set the Wah block bypass mode to 'Thru'. Set the Formant block bypass mode to 'Mute', as it is in a parallel row.

Bypass the Wah and Formant blocks on scenes 1, 2, and 3. Setup the auto-engage control on the Wah and Formant blocks to only Channel 'A'. Now only channel 'A' of both blocks will respond to the expression pedal and 'auto-engage both blocks. The other channels will not respond to the expression pedal or auto-engage, and can be bypassed or active per scene.

Now set those two blocks to be on channel 'A' on scene 2. Then set those two blocks to be on channel 'B' on scenes 1 and 3. The expression pedal and Auto-engage will activate only while on channel 'A' of both blocks. (scene 2). The expression pedal and Auto-engage will NOT activate while on channel 'B' of both blocks. (scenes 1 and 3).

I'll check this out Monday afternoon. It's getting late, and I've got stuff to do in the AM before I can find time for my FM9 (which is a heckuva way to prioritize my life, but it's reality).

 

[Moke]

#2
Use a 'Multiplexer' block to select between two rows of the grid via it's channels. Leave the Wah and Formant blocks on channel 'A' and running in all scenes. Even if you move the pedal and auto-engage them both, you will not hear them in scenes 1 or 3 because the 'Multiplexer' block will block the signal of row #2 (see pics below)

 

[bleujazz3]

Thank you! Will try this the first of your solutions this afternoon, and let you know how it turns out. Otherwise, if CPU usage doesn't interfere, will try a Multiplexer.

EDIT: The auto-engage feature does not work for the control modifiers, and changes with each channel to suit whatever channel is selected. If Off is selected for one channel, it remains the same for all channels. If auto-engage is selected for one channel it remains the same for all channels. This solution does not work.

However, the Multiplexer option will work. I just need to verify that scenes 1 and 3 are bypassed and scene 2 is my viable wah/formant circuit.

 

[Moke]

Method #1 from my post above does work. It sound like you are not completely grasping my instructions?

The external control/auto-engage in the Edit Modifier window needs to be set to 'Channel A' for both blocks. Then use channel 'A' of both blocks in scene 2 only. Use Channel 'B' (or any other channel, as only channel 'A' will respond to the pedal) in scenes 1 and 3, with those two (un-controlled) blocks bypassed in scenes 1 and 3.

In scene 2, the two blocks using channel 'A' will respond to the pedal. And auto-engage when the pedal is moved from it's parked position.
In scenes 1 and 3 the two bypassed blocks, using channel 'B' will not respond to the pedal. So the will remain bypassed.

 

[bleujazz3]

Method #1 from my post above does work. It sound like you are not completely grasping my instructions?

The external control/auto-engage in the Edit Modifier window needs to be set to 'Channel A' for both blocks. Then use channel 'A' of both blocks in scene 2 only. Use Channel 'B' (or any other channel, as only channel 'A' will respond to the pedal) in scenes 1 and 3, with those two (un-controlled) blocks bypassed in scenes 1 and 3.

In scene 2, the two blocks using channel 'A' will respond to the pedal. And auto-engage when the pedal is moved from it's parked position.
In scenes 1 and 3 the two bypassed blocks, using channel 'B' will not respond to the pedal. So the will remain bypassed.

It's likely that I don't understand what you've said. Let me repeat back what I think I've understood.

Set Wah and Formant control modifier to Channel A. Use Channel A (control modifier) for whatever scenes you might wish to use wah/formant. For separate scenes that do not use wah/formant, select Channel B from the main window (not control modifier, main build screen) and designate that to the scene that won't use wah/formant.

If this is correct, and will work, it will be possible to shunt a Multiplexer block and resume my previous signal path.

 

[bleujazz3]

Two ways...

#1
Set the Wah block bypass mode to 'Thru'. Set the Formant block bypass mode to 'Mute', as it is in a parallel row.

Bypass the Wah and Formant blocks on scenes 1, 2, and 3. Setup the auto-engage control on the Wah and Formant blocks to only Channel 'A'. Now only channel 'A' of both blocks will respond to the expression pedal and 'auto-engage both blocks. The other channels will not respond to the expression pedal or auto-engage, and can be bypassed or active per scene.

Now set those two blocks to be on channel 'A' on scene 2. Then set those two blocks to be on channel 'B' on scenes 1 and 3. The expression pedal and Auto-engage will activate only while on channel 'A' of both blocks. (scene 2). The expression pedal and Auto-engage will NOT activate while on channel 'B' of both blocks. (scenes 1 and 3).

Just to simplify...

All that's needed to set up various scenes where the wah & formant are active via EV-1, and inactive is this:

The external control/auto-engage in the Edit Modifier window needs to be set to 'Channel A' for both blocks. Then use channel 'A' of both blocks in scene 2 only. Use Channel 'B' (or any other channel, as only channel 'A' will respond to the pedal) in scenes 1 and 3, with those two (un-controlled) blocks bypassed in scenes 1 and 3.

In scene 2, the two blocks using channel 'A' will respond to the pedal. And auto-engage when the pedal is moved from it's parked position.
In scenes 1 and 3 the two bypassed blocks, using channel 'B' will not respond to the pedal. So the will remain bypassed.

Set up two separate Channels, A & B in the main FM9-Edit window for wah and formant. Make any modifications you might need in this main window (e.g. Try setting wah Frequency Max to 1500 Hz, and the Fat knob to 10.0. Also, in the EQ tab to the left set your 640 Hz to 1.75, your 1000 Hz to 4.5, and your 1600 Hz to 2.5. All of this will thicken up and make for a deeper sounding wah, and reduce an otherwise harsh or shrill tone.)

Then, for whatever scenes you might need wah and formant to be active, select the wah "control" modifier and right-click on it, and set your Channel to B, and auto-engage "on." Then exit the modifier screen. Do the same for the formant "control" modifier.

You can choose what % value your wah begins to work and when it stops, so you don't need to use the full sweep of the EV-1's treadle.

Then, exit the modifier screen and save your work. Lastly, choose which scenes will be designated for Channel A and Channel B. Channel A will be the wah/formant's inactive channel. Channel B will be the wah/formant's active channel.

Feel free to try this for yourselves. It solves the problem about active and inactive wah/formant blocks for various scenes within a preset.

Thank you, @Moke for describing in detail what needed to be done. I hope my post described the procedure in simpler step-by-step words that will be easy to others to follow.