FM3 w Different Guitars (pickup levels)

UKMark said:
Hi @Moke, thanks for getting involved and helping, much appreciated.


So..

Are you saying that regardless of the output level of my guitar, the same signal level, and hence the same patch volume (assuming nothing else in the patch changes) will occur.

IE. Through the FOH, my 175 will sound the same volume as my hot PRS, assuming I pad the PRS to be the same level on the meters when thumping a big chord, as I get with the 175 doing the same thing?

To be more specific. My 175 lights up the yellow but never touches red on the input meters when thumping a big G barre chord.
So If I pad down the PRS to be the same (just lighting yellow, no red), will my 175 and my PRS sound the same volume through the PA (accounting for the tonal differences of course)?

I guess you might be thinking 'try it for yourself' but unfortunately I am in the UK and our rig is stored away in the US until we return for our winter season there. So I am working with FRFR monitors to set this all up. Hence my caution.

Thanks again
Mark
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NOPE.
Carefully re-read post #35

Also
Moke said:
There are many other parameters to affect the level of your guitar entering the 'grid'. It can be done globally, or on a per-preset basis.
The 'Input 1 / Instrument' parameter on the Axe-Fx III and FM9, and the 'Input 1 Pad' parameter on the FM3 are only for optimizing the levels going into the A/D converters. And DO NOT alter your level hitting the presets.
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The Input Pad and Input 1 / Instrument parameters are not what you are looking for.

Let's say you have a guitar with an 'arbitrary' pickup output volume of '75'. You can adjust the Input Pad or Input 1 / Instrument parameters up and down to change the level that you hit the A/D converters, and subsequently the Input 1 LEDs. But your volume hitting the blocks of the presets will still be '75'. That is just how these parameters work...

If you then use a guitar with an 'arbitrary' pickup output volume of '55'. You will be hitting the A/D converters (and the preset) less. You can (unnecessarily) increase the Input Pad or Input 1 / Instrument parameter to just under the clip point, or leave it alone. But your volume hitting the blocks of the presets will still be '55'.
 
So - your desire is to have two guitars with completely different outputs but have them hit the amp at the same level? Or are you just trying to keep a consistent output volume?

In the first case, I guess you could use a boost pedal in front of the fractal, or a volume boost in each preset (though either way you'd have to figure out how much you want to boost for each guitar).

The better solution might be to just have a volume pedal running on either the amp level parameter or output block so you can compensate for OUTPUT volume instead of input volume.

Also, remember - the lower output from a guitar will have a much greater effect on the amount the amp distorts and / or compresses than it will on the output volume. It will have an effect on volume, but not as much as you might think. Plus, boosting the front end will change the gain staging and compression that you are using the softer guitar for anyway... hence why I suggest compensating at the output.

Worst case, just use different presets / scenes for the two guitars - you're likely going to be wanting a different sound out of each of them anyway (or else why would you switch on stage).
 
AlexGuitar said:
So - your desire is to have two guitars with completely different outputs but have them hit the amp at the same level? Or are you just trying to keep a consistent output volume?

In the first case, I guess you could use a boost pedal in front of the fractal, or a volume boost in each preset (though either way you'd have to figure out how much you want to boost for each guitar).

The better solution might be to just have a volume pedal running on either the amp level parameter or output block so you can compensate for OUTPUT volume instead of input volume.

Also, remember - the lower output from a guitar will have a much greater effect on the amount the amp distorts and / or compresses than it will on the output volume. It will have an effect on volume, but not as much as you might think. Plus, boosting the front end will change the gain staging and compression that you are using the softer guitar for anyway... hence why I suggest compensating at the output.

Worst case, just use different presets / scenes for the two guitars - you're likely going to be wanting a different sound out of each of them anyway (or else why would you switch on stage).
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The most simple solution though, ie without all these turnarounds (thanks for your valuable tips 👍), would be to have a global input parameter, wouldn't it? We had this on the Axe Fx 2, it worked out very well for me all though I finally opted for dedicated presets as I changed guitars for particular songs and used the guitar's volume knob (works only if you use a guitar more powerful than the one the patch was designed with). AFAIK this feature exists on the III and FM 9. Too many solutions in fact.
 
skolacki said:
I’m baffled by people that ask for help, get it, and then ignore it.
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What baffles me is people that sign up for a discussion forum who then snipe at others for asking questions and discussing things. Isn’t having a discussion about possibilities why we are here?
 
Moke said:
If you then use a guitar with an 'arbitrary' pickup output volume of '55'. You will be hitting the A/D converters (and the preset) less. You can (unnecessarily) increase the Input Pad or Input 1 / Instrument parameter to just under the clip point, or leave it alone. But your volume hitting the blocks of the presets will still be '55'.
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Ok, lightbulb 💡. I see what you are saying now, thank you.

thank you so much to everyone here that has contributed with positive and helpful comments. Lots of ideas to try out and make this work.

I am going to quit now as it is clear there are people here that are getting annoyed with me asking questions. Strange but true.
 
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UKMark said:
Ok, lightbulb 💡. I see what you are saying now, thank you.

thank you so much to everyone here that has contributed with positive and helpful comments. Lots of ideas to try out and make this work.

I am going to quit now as it is clear there are people here that are getting annoyed with me asking questions. Strange but true.
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No need to bow out. I’m hoping you figure out a way to make the FM3 work. I was just frustrated that you didn’t seem to be considering the advice you were given for a solution. Should have kept my trap shut.
 
skolacki said:
No need to bow out. I’m hoping you figure out a way to make the FM3 work. I was just frustrated that you didn’t seem to be considering the advice you were given for a solution. Should have kept my trap shut.
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Hey @skolacki, thanks for the msg. I guess I was being a bit tetchy too.

I think maybe I haven't made my rationale clear. I really am not just a whiner who wont read the manual :) (usually)

I have bought the right gear for the job (I think) as I have an FX3 in the live rack back in the US. What I was hoping was to setup patches whilst travelling in the UK with the FM3 (nice and small/portable) which I can then load into the FX3 when we return to the US for our winter season tour and I dig out the live rig.
I did consult with Fractal /G66 support and they said it was all doable, which I guess is true from the perspective of CPU/Functionality etc; everything an FM3 can do, the FX3 has in spades (except portability....)
So I went ahead and bought both; FX3 in the rack in the US, FM3 in my backpack with me in the UK & Europe.

What I dont want to happen is that I do numerous work-arounds on the FM3 to balance up my patches/guitars and then have to undo/redo all the levelling tweaks I have made when I load them onto the FX3. There simply isnt time. When we get to the US it is rehearse-gig-rinse-repeat. And I dont want to be 'that guy' in the rehearsal room holding everyone up whilst I 'twiddle' with my guitar toys.We have all been there eh?

So sorry if it appears I am not taking the advice given. I do appreciate the help. I just want to be sure my workflow now isnt going to bite me in the arse when I get in front of the FX3 later this year.
 
The input sensitivity on the FX3 and input pad on FM3 keep you from clipping the A/D converter. This is a hardware setting per unit. Nothing to do with presets.
The FX3 does have a global input 1 gain control that you can adjust for variations in guitar levels. The FM3 does not.

The easiest solution is to use the output level on the input block. This will do what you’re asking for.
Your presets will behave the same with both FX3 and FM3 using such.
 
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Just like with a real amp, if you plug in higher or lower output guitars they will sound different all other things being equal (amp settings, etc). And that’s a good thing - I choose the guitar/pickups/setting because they sound different. Otherwise I just use one guitar for the entire gig.

There are probably 100 places in a signal chain in the Fractal that you gain bump up the gain of the lower output guitar. If I were you I’d either have presets just for that guitar where the gain is bumped up to match the other guitars (I tend to use a different preset for each song or set of songs anyway) OR I’d just have a boost block in every preset/scene that can be engaged when you use that guitar to bring it up to where you want it. And with scene ignore enabled it will stay on even when you change to different scenes. I’d likely put it on a dedicated external switch and just push it when I switch to that guitar, and push it again to disengage the boost when I switch to a different guitar.
 
I have a simular issue with my PRS McCarty with really hot \m/ pickups and my PRS semi hollow. My issue is not different output volume but hitting the amps more/less so the same patch that can chug with the McCarty is just rockish with the semi hollow (as it would happen with real amps). But as I use each guitar always for the same songs, I just have different patches for each guitar/song. Usually play with a booster or more gain or the input trim of the amp as it’s been suggested here already.

Do you just randomly switch guitars during the shows and not for specific songs?
 
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I tackled this issue by using presets specific to guitars. This might not be the most elegant way of doing it, but it's an easy way since I didn't only want to adjust gain, I also wanted to make small tweaks to EQ settings on the amp model.
Switching between a Strat/Tellie, a PRS and a Les Paul became so much easier when using different patches.

As I said, maybe to the smartest way of doing it, it works for me though.
 
Since the OP seems to be controlling "everything" via MIDI/Ableton, enabling a boost via drive pedal (VIRTUAL drive pedal in the unit) or a filter block could even happen without player action. No need to even step on a switch.
 
How about this?

Use two different input blocks on every preset, one for each guitar. Plug one guitar into input one, and the other into input 2. Adjust the trim on each input block. Doesn't help if you somehow end up with a third guitar, but....

Would this work????
 
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