FM3 vs Real Amp + Torpedo X

A

axelat

Member
Hi guys,

just out of curiosity - there have been hundreds of postings about modelers vs. real amps, but I would like to hear the opinion of guys with experience in both worlds in a certain situation:

Setting: Practice at home
With a 5153 - 100 W into an Torpedo Capture X with a good 4x12IR into a set of studio monitors
compared to the FM3 5153 with the same IR, same monitors

Can you hear the difference, can you "feel" it (more responsive, more dynamic, less sizzle in the highs etc.)? Could you tell the difference in a blind test?

I love my FM3 and will certainly keep it, but I am tempted to get at least on "real" tube amp and a torpedo X - but I am not sure if it's worth the money. People like Rabea say that there is a huge difference, others like Leon Todd don't or at least skip this topic.

Amps I consider: 5150 III Stealth, Peavy Invective MH, PRS MT15, Fortin Sigil

So what do you think?
 
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Just grab that REVV 100R It has everything you need for both worlds, but I do want that Mansoor amp hehe
 
I've got a Torpedo Captor and a few tube amps (because a middle-aged dad left to his own devices is a dangerous thing) - a Mesa Mark V, a Princeton Reverb RI, a Bassbreaker 007, and an old USA Blues Deluxe. Honestly? The Torpedo has been collecting dust since the FM3 got opened on Christmas morning. Don't get me wrong, I could get some amazing DI tones that way, but there just isn't enough difference anymore to be worth the effort, the cost of tubes, etc. I haven't sold my tube amps yet and still play them regularly because there is something special about an amp in a room, but if I had to downsize I'd be keeping the FM3.
 
If you have never owned a proper tube amp, you definitely need to get one and try it. It's a different feeling.

With that said, you must take into consideration several things:
1. If you plug a real tube amp into a load box (with an IR), then into a sound card and listen through the monitors, you will get one flavor of sound and feeling.
2. If you plug the same real tube amp into a guitar cabinet, it will be another flavor of sound and feeling.

In any case, I would highly suggest trying a real tube amp with a guitar cab (at least 1x12). It's impossible to describe the difference in words =)
 
I had a Mesa Mark V + Torpedo Live for 3 years and…no way it is better than ANY modeler/profiler.

Once you process a tube amp through a load box + IR it gets in the same league of a modeler but with few options.

The only use I see of similar solutions is if you are a 1 amp guy that only needs that specific sound.

The only way to have a different feeling is using the amp + cab or a combo. But this is another story.
 
For the studio monitor situation using a FM3 is nicer. Easier to manage, more tone shaping options and all in one relatively small and light box.
I still prefer a tube amp into a guitar cab but it has more to do with ease of use than sounding better.

Using a real guitar cab will always limit the variety of tone you can get so having hundreds of amp models in that situation is not as useful.
 
My 100w Helios with my 2x12 V30 blows everything out of the water that I have ever owned, and the only other tube amp Ive had that sounded really good with the Built-in Cab clone was the 100w Mesa Badlander, It was amazing through the clone for recording, but ask me what I use for my daily? FM3 :D
 
laxu said:
more tone shaping options
Click to expand...
To me, this is the best part of Fractal devices. You can surgically shape the low and high end using advanced parameters you can´t tweak on a real amp. So, having this amazing and real pick response, I prefer FM3 over any tube amp + reactive box on my home studio.
 
I have several amps that are modeled in the FM3 (Friedman BE 100, Dirty Shirley, Bogner Ecstasy, and Morgan AC20 and have owned others in the past) and a Suhr Reactive Load. If I were only playing through studio monitors or FRFR, I would be 100% content with only the FM3 (or Axe Fx III). I've A/B'd my Axe Fx running Cygnus against the real thing and it's so close in tone and feel that it's just not worth the hassle of using a real amp. I seriously doubt I could pass a blind test assuming the amp and model were dialed in reasonably close. In some cases I even prefer the model because I can tweak away the things I don't like about the real amps. I've been struggling with the idea of selling my amps, but at this point they mostly sit in the closet.

I wouldn't recommend buying an amp in your scenario unless you were also going to be playing it through a real cab. That's a completely different experience and I've never quite gotten a modeler to sound and feel exactly like the real thing in that setup. It may be that I never hit the right recipe of parameters that need to be tweaked on the Axe Fx, but something about having the modeled power section and real a tube or SS power amp never sounded right.
 
I've done this comparison, more or less, except I'm using a Peavey 5150 II into a Weber 200W load box and an Axe-Fx II, both running into the same OwnHammer IR. I tweaked the Fractal model to get as close to the IRL 5150 as possible using my ears during some reamping.

I had someone else run the DAW and did a blind AB test where I tried to identify the real 5150 and the Fractal model in a metal mix where big guitars were the focus. I couldn't tell the difference and I'd bet good money that most people can't tell the difference in a mix.
 
axelat said:
Setting: Practice at home
Click to expand...
I think it's weird to be so obsessed with the difference for this scenario. Maybe just practice without worrying so much about the minute differences in tone?

Also, like @jljesse said, "I couldn't tell the difference and I'd bet good money that most people can't tell the difference in a mix." Take a look (listen) at the hundreds of blind A/B comparison videos on YouTube. People can't tell the difference between real and today's top modelers. If they tell you they can, they're lying.

Lastly, if you're looking for an excuse to buy gear, just do it and stop waffling.
 
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