FM3 --> Powercab?

Hey jarrett, any updates on getting a replacement? I'd love to hear your comparison...seriously considering a Powercab 212 but not sure which modeler yet!
I came to FAS from Helix and a PowerCab. I ran an Axe FX III into the PowerCab and thought it sounded great - it was certainly way better than the Helix. Then I got an Atomic CLR; the PowerCab sounded like it had a blanket over it in comparison. My other issue with the PC (the 1x12 version anyway) was that it was extremely directional.
 
I came to FAS from Helix and a PowerCab. I ran an Axe FX III into the PowerCab and thought it sounded great - it was certainly way better than the Helix. Then I got an Atomic CLR; the PowerCab sounded like it had a blanket over it in comparison. My other issue with the PC (the 1x12 version anyway) was that it was extremely directional.
That's cool to hear. I would expect the CLR to beat the Powercab in terms of FRFR performance. Personally I'm most interested in the Powercab for its speaker emulation. Other than my studio monitors, I've only tried a Friedman ASM-12 and wasn't terribly impressed...and in general I'm not too fond of playing guitar through monitors. On paper, the Powercab looks like it would fit my needs best but I've yet to try one.
 
Hey jarrett, any updates on getting a replacement? I'd love to hear your comparison...seriously considering a Powercab 212 but not sure which modeler yet!

Yeah, I was able to get a return on the defective unit thankfully. Then I turned around and ordered a new FM3 to check out.

For me, it sounds good through the Powercab 1x12. I suspect it would sound even better through the Powercab 2x12.

If you are looking for really flat response, the Powercab is not the best solution. But if you are primarily playing electric guitar through it, I think it works fine for that.

I use it one of two ways with the FM3:

1. Powercab in LF Raw mode (horn disabled / no DSP on the speaker) with IR's enabled on the FM3.
2. Powercab in Vintage 30, Greenback or Creamback mode with no IR's enabled on the FM3.

The 2nd mode requires a little EQ'ing to sound good to my ears. Can either do the adjustments on the Powercab via the Powercab Edit software or can use an EQ block on the FM3 after the amp block. I typically use the EQ block on the FM3 because it is much more granular than the hi/low cuts in the Powercab.

One other thing, not sure if this is needed for the 2x12, but for the 1x12 Powercab, the input gain is set very low by default. This causes an issue with the Powercab in a couple of ways. If the incoming signal from any modeler is not high enough, the Powercab will sound pretty meh. This is because the Powercab isn't getting enough signal coming in to amplify well.

To solve this, I went in via the Powercab Edit app and bumped up the input gain settings on the presets that I like to use on the Powercab. I forget know exactly how much I bumped them up, but it was enough that the standard output from the Helix and FM3 was sufficient to get enough input to the Powercab. This is noted by the input light on the Powercab staying yellow while playing with the occassional red blip on hard hits. That seems to get the Powercab into the sweet spot. Doing this also gives the side benefit of making the Powercab "louder." I rarely run it past 25-30% volume for home use now, where I used to have to really crank it up.

Regarding the modelers, I go back and forth between the Helix line and the FM3. To me, the amp models sound "better" on the FM3, but only slightly. (This is when comparing the latest firmware (3.11 v. Cygnus) on each unit, they are extremely close now, imo.) But for everything else, I prefer the Helix. I have an easier time getting good results with delay and reverb with the Helix. And the drive pedals seem a little more flexible in the Helix. I don't use a ton of effects, so some of the deeper features of the FM3 effects are lost on me. I do wish the Helix had more amp models though. I really like the Morgan and Splawn amps on the FM3 that aren't represented in the Helix. But for the basics, like Fender, Marshall and Friedman, I feel like I can get a similarly good sound from either unit.

The main difference for me is using the modelers without their apps. With FM3 Edit, I can fly around and change things easily. But going to the front panel of the unit directly, even with the new performance pages, I find it very clunky to move around. So much so I usually give up and go back to the app for changes. With the Helix stuff, I feel equally confident on the device and on the app.

The other thing is live use/footswitches. I prefer to have a footswitch for everything I need when playing live. So one switch for tuner, two that allow me to bank up and down, a footswitch to go in and out of preset/stomp mode, a switch for each preset or effect I want to turn on and off. Basically, I like to have it setup like an old school pedalboard where I can see everything in the heat of the moment.

The FM3 doesn't offer this without going to the OMG9 setup and that requires two devices, a pedal board to strap them to, a patch cable between them, and programming to keep those two in sync that could crap out at some point, etc. On the other hand, Line6 has multiple single units that can do this at different price points. The original Floor unit, the LT and now the HX Stomp XL.

The original Helix floor (and maybe the LT?) will integrate with the Powercab so that you can switch the Powercab on the fly per preset. Can't do that with the FM3 or HX Stomp/Stomp XL. So you can run an IR/LF Raw on one preset and no IR/speaker emulation on the next preset, etc. That's pretty slick, imo. But I've found that even though there are 12 speaker emulation models on the Powercab+ that I only really like the Vintage 30, Greenback and Creamback models any way.

So right now, my idea is to return the FM3 and go back to the Helix products for those reasons.
 
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That's cool to hear. I would expect the CLR to beat the Powercab in terms of FRFR performance. Personally I'm most interested in the Powercab for its speaker emulation. Other than my studio monitors, I've only tried a Friedman ASM-12 and wasn't terribly impressed...and in general I'm not too fond of playing guitar through monitors. On paper, the Powercab looks like it would fit my needs best but I've yet to try one.
Honestly, I was never a huge fan of the speaker emulations in the PowerCab. Maybe it’s just me because lots of people love them, so it came down to its FRFR performance. I actually prefer the L6 StageSource speakers to the PowerCab in that regard.
 
The FM3 doesn't offer this without going to the OMG9 setup and that requires two devices, a pedal board to strap them to, two (different) power plugs, a patch cable between them, and programming to keep those two in sync that could crap out at some point, etc. On the other hand, Line6 has multiple single units that can do this at different price points. The original Floor unit, the LT and now the HX Stomp XL.

So right now, my idea is to return the FM3 and go back to the Helix products for those reasons. '
To be fair, the OMG9 setup with an FC6 and FM3 doesn’t ‘require’ a pedalboard to strap them on to, two different power plugs (the FC6 is powered by its XLR connection to the FM3) or any real programming to keep them in sync. Your points about the easier UI of the Helix and the convenience of an all-in-one unit with more switches are fair - I would be very surprised if the next iteration of the FM3/Axe FX III did not address these in some way.
 
My mistake, I thought the FC6 had to have its own power even with the FM3. That's cool that it does not.

Do they sync automagically? I thought there was some sort of OMG9 programming that had to take place to keep them in sync. And I could have sworn I read about issues where the two devices have come out of sync and caused issues for owners.

And you don't have to have a pedalboard to mount them to, but I suspect anyone using them live would which adds to the complexity, weight and expense a bit and that stuff isn't cheap.

I just prefer a single unit with that functionality mentioned before. I think if there was an OMG9 format for the FM3, like an FM9, I would buy that and forget about the Helix products. But in the meantime, there is a the Helix Floor, LT and Stomp XL that solves those issues for me.
 
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My mistake, I thought the FC6 had to have its own power even with the FM3. That's cool that it does not.

Do they sync automagically? I thought there was some sort of OMG9 programming that had to take place to keep them in sync. And I could have sworn I read about issues where the two devices have come out of sync and caused issues for owners.

And you don't have to have a pedalboard to mount them to, but I suspect anyone using them live would which adds to the complexity, weight and expense a bit and that stuff isn't cheap.

I just prefer a single unit with that functionality mentioned before. I think if there was an OMG9 format for the FM3, like an FM9, I would buy that and forget about the Helix products. But in the meantime, there is a the Helix Floor, LT and Stomp XL that solves those issues for me.
Yeah, an “FM9” or thereabouts would be the hot ticket for sure. The FC6 and FM3 don’t really ‘sync’ per se; all the programming is done via the FM3 which then displays on the FC6 via Layouts. I have never had an issue with the OMG9 setup. I do use it live, and I carry the two units in a 24”padded case and just lay them side by side on the floor.
 
What does the programming entail?
Really, nothing. With the OMG Layouts loaded, the FC6 will automatically show Presets, Scenes or Effects depending on which button on the FM3 you press. It really is that simple. You can add additional functionality if you want to, but it's all done through FM-Edit and it is very straightforward. It's not like programming a midi controller for example.
 
Really, nothing. With the OMG Layouts loaded, the FC6 will automatically show Presets, Scenes or Effects depending on which button on the FM3 you press. It really is that simple. You can add additional functionality if you want to, but it's all done through FM-Edit and it is very straightforward. It's not like programming a midi controller for example.
Is there a video or something showing how to load the OMG layouts?
 
Doing a couple of searches, I see folks talking about having issues with it, which goes back to the complexity issues I mentioned.

And trying to envision how you carry the two units to gigs without a pre-wired pedalboard setup. Is it just like a duffel bag with them banging around? I guess to be safe you carry extra link cables just in case of a failure? The logistics of it seems cumbersome.

Seems like an FM9 would solve a lot of potential issues.
 
Doing a couple of searches, I see folks talking about having issues with it, which goes back to the complexity issues I mentioned.

And trying to envision how you carry the two units to gigs without a pre-wired pedalboard setup. Is it just like a duffel bag with them banging around? I guess to be safe you carry extra link cables just in case of a failure? The logistics of it seems cumbersome.

Seems like an FM9 would solve a lot of potential issues.
I use a Gator transit case which holds them side by side - with room for an EV-2 depression pedal and a pocket for spare cables etc. Yes, I carry a spare short XLR cable, but I've never had to use it. Setup is ridiculously fast. Place both units on the floor side by side, connect with the XLR and make the necessary FM3 connections to power, my monitor, FOH and wireless receiver (which I would obviously have to do even if they were on a board). For setup, having it on a board (or having an 'FM9') would save me maybe 5 seconds (and that's being generous).

I sometimes use my Axe FX III and FC-12 live. I have never had a 'sync' issue with those either. While there is more to carry, setup and teardown are both very fast. While I am sure there are several reasons why one might prefer Helix over the FM3, these should not be among them.
 
I use a Gator transit case which holds them side by side - with room for an EV-2 depression pedal and a pocket for spare cables etc. Yes, I carry a spare short XLR cable, but I've never had to use it. Setup is ridiculously fast. Place both units on the floor side by side, connect with the XLR and make the necessary FM3 connections to power, my monitor, FOH and wireless receiver (which I would obviously have to do even if they were on a board). For setup, having it on a board (or having an 'FM9') would save me maybe 5 seconds (and that's being generous).

I sometimes use my Axe FX III and FC-12 live. I have never had a 'sync' issue with those either. While there is more to carry, setup and teardown are both very fast. While I am sure there are several reasons why one might prefer Helix over the FM3, these should not be among them.
Interesting opinions. Glad to hear that setup is working for you and hasn't given you any sync issues so far.

I feel like other people's reasons for their choice of gigging solution are their own. As such, I wouldn't presume to say what their reasons should or should not be.
 
Interesting opinions. Glad to hear that setup is working for you and hasn't given you any sync issues so far.

I feel like other people's reasons for their choice of gigging solution are their own. As such, I wouldn't presume to say what their reasons should or should not be.
No offense man, but you asked the question, and since you had some misconceptions about the FM3 and OMG, I simply wanted to point out that they were not an issue in practice. Play on in good health.
 
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