FM3 Logic Pro - Difference in tone after recording

Fm3 is connected to the monitors via headphone, i.e. out1. MacBook is connected to FM3 via USB cable. when I play I hear my guitar through the monitors. when I listen to a recorded piece, because FM3 plays the role of an interface, I can also hear it through the monitors. I don't use other interfaces. everything is via fm3
 

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Photos please?

What exactly are the monitors? Why would you not connect via XLR or line out? If you're plugging powered speakers into a headphone socket there could be a level or impedance mismatch.

Check out the USB audio section of the FM3 manual.

Post the preset?
 
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Could you post a screen shot of your Audio/MIDI settings? It might help us to help you.

I also agree with Doogz in that having your main monitors supplied with a signal from a headphone output could cause its own issues. I'm also curious what you're using for monitors, and wondering if you have the option of using the balanced XLR outputs instead. I'd at least use an output which is line-level, balanced or unbalanced. The 1/4" outputs are unbalanced at -10dBV, and the XLR outputs are balanced and transmit a hotter signal at +4dBu... either of those are preferable to running the headphone output to your monitors.
 
Open up the levels view on the grid, and make sure when you're playing back that there's no signal on any blocks in the grid (which would mean that logic is being routed back through your preset a second time). If it's only playing from the outputs then your grid should be silent when not playing guitar.

Then check if you're double-monitoring: i.e. the FM3 is probably sending your sound to the outputs all the time regardless of if the DAW is open ot not. But your DAW might also have monitoring enabled on the recording track, sending the same signal to the output again but possibly out of phase. Closing the DAW entirely and seeing if the sound changes might help check for this.
 
In my opinion monitors are irrelevant, because this is the same setup.
I’ve got two scenarios :
1. I play guitar = certain sound
2. I playback from logic = different sound .
Recorded sound is different through the same monitors …
I’m photographer , if I have one photo darker than other displayed on the same monitor the problem is with photo that’s darker , not monitor itself. Monitor is not causing problem with different tone. The source is different … or modified through the chain.
I’m at work now. I will be home later today
 
Your choice of a DAW is not the problem :). Just check the recorded audio as I mentioned above. That will tell you if the problem is inbound when recording, or outbound during playback. That will narrow down your search for the problem considerably.
 
I also agree with Doogz and jeffgoobs... I think it's valid (and easiest) to connect the monitors the proper way and test if this solves the problem... The headphone out is not designed to drive monitors, and using it this way can cause level and impedance mismatch, and this can alter the general tone of an audio signal.
 
yy46 said:
I don’t have access to another DAW. I think the only option would be to download Reaper and try it. I think it’s for free, at least it was many years ago..
I will try bounce recorded waveform and listen outside the logic . I belive it’s not how it sounds when playback , it sounds already like that because has been recorded already like that .
will do it later
Click to expand...
If you have Logic you have Garage Band. Comes pre-loaded with MacOS.
 
IronSean said:
Open up the levels view on the grid, and make sure when you're playing back that there's no signal on any blocks in the grid (which would mean that logic is being routed back through your preset a second time). If it's only playing from the outputs then your grid should be silent when not playing guitar.

Then check if you're double-monitoring: i.e. the FM3 is probably sending your sound to the outputs all the time regardless of if the DAW is open ot not. But your DAW might also have monitoring enabled on the recording track, sending the same signal to the output again but possibly out of phase. Closing the DAW entirely and seeing if the sound changes might help check for this.
Click to expand...
@yy46 did you see my post?

And agreed, you already have garage band. If it does sound different in GB, it could be config or it could be a monitoring setup issue like I suggested too.
 
What happens when you monitor the signal via the DAW as in software monitoring? - you would then mute the direct sound from the FM3 in audio setup menu
 
So when you monitor while recording, what is feeding the headphone amp of the FM3 - for example, are you monitoring the USB from Logic or are you just monitoring the guitar signal? Based on your above answers it shouldn’t be anything in Logic and therefore is likely just a difference in the monitoring.

That said, others have mentioned, monitoring from the headphone amp is not ideal, and if you have different levels (for example because either the USB send or the USB return are changing the level compared to the live guitar) when monitoring live vs the recorded track it could explain the difference. Is there a reason you can’t use the balanced outputs to connect to your monitors (which would typically be preferable for several reasons, including that it’s a balanced signal and that the impedance and level are more appropriate for driving powered monitors).
 
yy46 said:
I dont have it. I didnt need it so Ive deleted. no point keeping gb and logic if Im using logic only...
Click to expand...

I’m a fairly extensive logic user… And I still use GB on my phone a lot. From loops and beats, quick ideas, etc.

In fact, I plan to record a bunch of audio tracks on the trail in Spain here shortly with GB for drone video augmentation.

👍
 
ok I'm back with answers
1. I downloaded Reaper, the sound was still the same, I could hear it well when I played, it was thin and harsh after recording
2. I connected it to the XLR and here I found the problem, my preset sounds like this, i.e. thin and weak, it seems that the headphone output somehow colors the sound... it adds bass, fullness.
The best way to describe it is this: the headphone output produces full sound on the current preset. the xlr output is as if it had no cab block, harsh and no bass.
The reason why I had it connected like this was simple, I already had such a cable to connect it to.
Ive asked this question before like 1.5 year ago about difference between xlr and headphone output , the answer was that sound wise should be the same...
Now I will invest in the XLR cables and connect them properly, I will also have to change all the presets because if I change the cables, everything will sound thin and harsh. ehhh there is nothing better than constantly tweaking with Fractal... :)

thank you all for your input and suggestions, much appreciated as always...
 
Aha - progress!

Well, now you know where to start fixing things ... can I ask, is the power amp simulation and speaker simulation turned on in the global settings?

Also, check the output settings from the FM3 XLR outs - from memory these can be -10 or +4 db.

A patch that is perfect for live sound may be completely off for a recorded sound. You'll need to carve out the right sonic territory for the guitar.

I'd start with the global EQ, or copy a patch you think works well to a new preset location, and tweak or edit from there.
 
Good to hear you found the issue!

As for (re)EQing the presets for the new setup, my recommendation is that you check the presets - or at least your core/common saved amp and cab blocks - on several different (and diverse) systems, potentially any or all of the following:

1. Studio headphones, fed from the FM3 headphone output or another suitable headphone amp

2. IEMs, especially if there is any chance you’ll be gigging the FM3 with IEMs

3. Studio monitors, ideally nearfield and midfield

4. PA gear that is typical of the PA gear you may plug into

… and:

- consider checking both stereo and mono versions of presets (depending on your presets - maybe you’re never running stereo …)

- keep in mind the final destination for your signal - for example, unless you’re literally a solo guitar artist (no other instruments) keep in mind the space you want to fill in a mix - most of the time a guitar tone that when solo’d sounds a bit lacking in bass and high treble will fit just right in the mix. Another rule of thumb that is often appropriate is to set the gain where it sounds right … then back off a bit - aka ‘Malcolm’s tone was way cleaner than most of us think …’ :)


It may not be possible to get ‘ideal’ sound on all gear/systems, but in my experience the best presets will sound great on all of them and ideally warrant only minor tweaks (for example, ITB after recording, or at FoH during a gig).

This is similar to how, during mixing of an album, I’d want it checked on a variety of systems, each of which may reveal things I want to change but that the others wouldn’t.
 
Rumbletone said:
Good to hear you found the issue!

As for (re)EQing the presets for the new setup, my recommendation is that you check the presets - or at least your core/common saved amp and cab blocks - on several different (and diverse) systems, potentially any or all of the following:

1. Studio headphones, fed from the FM3 headphone output or another suitable headphone amp

2. IEMs, especially if there is any chance you’ll be gigging the FM3 with IEMs

3. Studio monitors, ideally nearfield and midfield

4. PA gear that is typical of the PA gear you may plug into

… and:

- consider checking both stereo and mono versions of presets (depending on your presets - maybe you’re never running stereo …)

- keep in mind the final destination for your signal - for example, unless you’re literally a solo guitar artist (no other instruments) keep in mind the space you want to fill in a mix - most of the time a guitar tone that when solo’d sounds a bit lacking in bass and high treble will fit just right in the mix. Another rule of thumb that is often appropriate is to set the gain where it sounds right … then back off a bit - aka ‘Malcolm’s tone was way cleaner than most of us think …’ :)


It may not be possible to get ‘ideal’ sound on all gear/systems, but in my experience the best presets will sound great on all of them and ideally warrant only minor tweaks (for example, ITB after recording, or at FoH during a gig).

This is similar to how, during mixing of an album, I’d want it checked on a variety of systems, each of which may reveal things I want to change but that the others wouldn’t.
Click to expand...


Very nicely put!

Recording is a skill all unto itself ...
 
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