FM3 in 4CM with Friedman Runt 50 and Fryette PS100

[Sorbz62]

I suppose this is a question about gain staging and connections.

I am connecting my FM3 to my Friedman Runt 50 head in 4cm using in/ out 2 only (as recommended on here) then to my PS 100 to allow me to firstly have 2 separate levels and secondly to enablee to crank the Runt for a more Poweramp saturated sound.

How would you suggest I set levels, I/Os, presets. I have nearly got there but have some hiss, which I can remove using the gates?

I have now done 2 presets - 1 is 4cm and the other is using an amp model directly to the Runt Poweramp. Both sound good but not quite there.

Btw, when I use the FX loop on the PS100 rather than the amp, I get much more noise.

Cheers in advance,
Jim

 

[ucnick]

FWIW, I experience some pretty significant noise when using my PS-100 with everything I've tried: FM3, FM9, Pod Go, Helix, Kemper Stage straight in, no effects loop. Tried ground lift, no effect. I keep intending to test noise floor by shorting it's input to ground, just haven't gotten around to it, hopefully next few days, if it's still present, then definitely the amp itself is the cause.

It's very noticeable at higher volume levels, especially between songs. When playing, it's not so noticeable, but becomes annoying when I stop playing. Even my bandmates have commented on it. I looked around and, from what I gather, it seems to be something of an issue with the amp design itself.

 

[WelshLukather]

It’s the Pads on the input/outputs - play around with them (in setup, I/O) don’t try and dial it out with gates, that’s the wrong approach IMO as you are battling with noise floor rather than the usual extraneous noise that gates deal with - it’s different.

You’ll find the pad alters the noise floor.

Also, when going from a traditional 4CM setup to an FX loop/PowerAmp type setup, you ideally need to be changing the Out 2 settings from Unity (essential in 4CM) to the usual +4/-10 db type settings for your FX loop type setup - that again will introduce hiss depending on how you have it set.

The FM3 (or any modeller in that respect) will need it’s setup changing for different setups, I have found there is no 1 size fits all.

How do I know this? I had a Runt too at one point and faced the same issues, it’s the pads and the Out 2 settings that solved it.

I also used an SD170 at times too.

Both were whisper quiet for me at any volume/gain.

 

[ucnick]

It’s the Pads on the input/outputs - play around with them (in setup, I/O) don’t try and dial it out with gates, that’s the wrong approach IMO as you are battling with noise floor rather than the usual extraneous noise that gates deal with - it’s different.

You’ll find the pad alters the noise floor.

Also, when going from a traditional 4CM setup to an FX loop/PowerAmp type setup, you ideally need to be changing the Out 2 settings from Unity (essential in 4CM) to the usual +4/-10 db type settings for your FX loop type setup - that again will introduce hiss depending on how you have it set.

The FM3 (or any modeller in that respect) will need it’s setup changing for different setups, I have found there is no 1 size fits all.

How do I know this? I had a Runt too at one point and faced the same issues, it’s the pads and the Out 2 settings that solved it.

I also used an SD170 at times too.

Both were whisper quiet for me at any volume/gain.

Myself, I rarely use the 4CM/FX loop, if at all. 99.9% is just straight into the amp. My issue is primarily the hum from the PS-100 at high volumes.

I typically use a Quilter ToneBlock 202 in a BlockDock12 HD cab with my FM3 and FM9T and have never had any noise issues whatsoever, also on my MicroPro Mach 2 12 HD. Quiet as the grave. Rarely used the PS-100 due to the hum.

So I played around with it this morning and it looks like the issue is with the PS-100, hum there on both the Line IN and FX Return, with high sensitivity switch on PS-100 on, massive 60 cycle hum. Then I shorted the input to ground and hum disappeared.

I then hooked up my FM3 (Out 2 at ~50%, -10dBV, into the PS-100 RX Return input as suggested by Dave Fryette for more volume) and the hum was back like gangbusters. Using the ground lift on the FM3 didn't make any difference, as before.

However when I engaged the ground lift on the PS-100 (which I did not spot before being way down near the bottom on the back below all the jacks) the hum disappeared. D'oh! I can crank it all the way to max volume, and it is literally too loud to stand in front of the speaker, literally hurts my ears. But it is now quiet. Problem SOLVED.

I put a piece of tape on top of the PS-100 and wrote "GROUND LIFT ON (IN)!!!" in case I forget...

 

[TSantaCruz]

Myself, I rarely use the 4CM/FX loop, if at all. 99.9% is just straight into the amp. My issue is primarily the hum from the PS-100 at high volumes.

I typically use a Quilter ToneBlock 202 in a BlockDock12 HD cab with my FM3 and FM9T and have never had any noise issues whatsoever, also on my MicroPro Mach 2 12 HD. Quiet as the grave. Rarely used the PS-100 due to the hum.

So I played around with it this morning and it looks like the issue is with the PS-100, hum there on both the Line IN and FX Return, with high sensitivity switch on PS-100 on, massive 60 cycle hum. Then I shorted the input to ground and hum disappeared.

I then hooked up my FM3 (Out 2 at ~50%, -10dBV, into the PS-100 RX Return input as suggested by Dave Fryette for more volume) and the hum was back like gangbusters. Using the ground lift on the FM3 didn't make any difference, as before.

However when I engaged the ground lift on the PS-100 (which I did not spot before being way down near the bottom on the back below all the jacks) the hum disappeared. D'oh! I can crank it all the way to max volume, and it is literally too loud to stand in front of the speaker, literally hurts my ears. But it is now quiet. Problem SOLVED.

I put a piece of tape on top of the PS-100 and wrote "GROUND LIFT ON (IN)!!!" in case I forget...

how did your toneblock compare to your ps-100?

 

[chrisjnyc]

OP, do you really need 150 watts from both tube amps? That seems like overkill unless you are playing massive arenas. The FM3 can be hit or miss with noise with different amps, and likely not much is going to make it completely noise free. I tried a few times to use presets setup with 4CM, but always came back to running the FM3 directly into the tube amp's FX loop and into a guitar cab (no IR\FAS cabs needed). For me that thats the best sounding, as you can really dial in the gain\EQ, when you are gain staging with a a few amps, everything would start to blend together

 

[sprada]

FWIW, I experience some pretty significant noise when using my PS-100 with everything I've tried: FM3, FM9, Pod Go, Helix, Kemper Stage straight in, no effects loop. Tried ground lift, no effect. I keep intending to test noise floor by shorting it's input to ground, just haven't gotten around to it, hopefully next few days, if it's still present, then definitely the amp itself is the cause.

It's very noticeable at higher volume levels, especially between songs. When playing, it's not so noticeable, but becomes annoying when I stop playing. Even my bandmates have commented on it. I looked around and, from what I gather, it seems to be something of an issue with the amp design itself.

I'm using FM3 humbuster cable (TRS) to Fryette PS-2A line in (TS).
I'm using also a Morley Humno on the Fryette.
It's dead silent at gig levels.

 

[ucnick]

how did your toneblock compare to your ps-100?

I like them both. A lot.

The TB is a bit on the dark side with eq controls at nominal, but I can tweak it with the eq controls to open it up. But overall PS100 a bit more transparent. But for really tight stages the TB202/Blockdock 12 really works well.

I also received up a Fender FR-12 (a low hiss unit, thank goodness!) for Xmas last year and I really like it, I'm rehearsing with it and will put it through it's paces next gig.

 

[ucnick]

I'm using FM3 humbuster cable (TRS) to Fryette PS-2A line in (TS).
I'm using also a Morley Humno on the Fryette.
It's dead silent at gig levels.

It was a ground loop. Hit the ground lift switch - poof! Noise went totally away, very quiet.

To quote Homer Simpson: "Doh!"