FM3 Firmware Version 6.01

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Greg Ferguson said:
Except that you said

That is purely subjective. It's your opinion, possibly shared with a small group of your friends, however, it remains subjective.

SHOW us the results of a demonstrated repeatable test. Several times Cliff has suggested you read his tech notes that will help you understand what you'll need to know to do that.

Fractal/Cliff is entirely happy to improve the modeling if you can demonstrate how you got there and where the model varies from the sample unit in their vault. There are many examples over the years where they've done that but continuing the argument based on subjective statements will prove nothing and continue to drag the thread off course.
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Agreed. In fact ,There is a recent example with the new noise gate , that was clearly a result of some discussions in the forum
Cliff will always listen to a polite request or good ideas , that might
Not be implemented right away but he listens and many times will reply to the poster like he has here
 
Laszlo said:
I found a bug. The following chorus effects work boomy in my preset (attached): vintage tape, stereo tri-chorus, and all 3 dimenson.
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Back to possible Firmware issues. I tested these Chorus FX’s and was not having any problems when placing them in a new preset. I wonder if you try to save the settings for your preset in the Library and then remove the block and add a new block and load the saved settings and see what happens.
 
nteloss said:
Of course, it is logical that if someone thinks that the device can be improved in some aspects , it is a troll.. ok
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Some are criticizing you unfairly and being a bit harsh though some of your communications have been a bit passive aggressive as well. I think you are also ignoring some knowledge which has been provided to you which you need to consider. You have a valid observation:

The FM3's models do not sound the same as my actual amp into a specific load box. However, the sound of a tube amp is not a static/absolute and is strongly impacted by the impedance of the speaker cab/load it is plugged into. Fractal models that behavior but does not have a model for the load you are using, so there is no true comparison you can make here. There have been innumerable comparisons between Fractal devices and the real deal which display it's accuracy both aurally and using spectral analysis. If your goal is to match your existing setup 100%, which you clearly prefer, and the FM3 doesn't work for you, I suggest you just move on and use what you prefer.
 
I read all the comments and of course I respect Cliff for the job he has done with the fractal devices. Actually the I like the fm3 because it is easy to use and dial a good sound but, as many agreed it is very close but not there yet. I am a guy that trust my ears and not the diagrams I am reading and with this state, the real amp in to the ox or the real amp in to a real cab, sounds and feels more natural to me than the Fm3 to my monitors or my Fm3 to the Return of my amp ( using the preamp only from fm3) and my real cab.
I would be very happy if the modeller could improve in this aspect because I really like it.
 
nteloss said:
I read all the comments and of course I respect Cliff for the job he has done with the fractal devices. Actually the I like the fm3 because it is easy to use and dial a good sound but, as many agreed it is very close but not there yet. I am a guy that trust my ears and not the diagrams I am reading and with this state, the real amp in to the ox or the real amp in to a real cab, sounds and feels more natural to me than the Fm3 to my monitors or my Fm3 to the Return of my amp ( using the preamp only from fm3) and my real cab.
I would be very happy if the modeller could improve in this aspect because I really like it.
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I suggest you simply use the tools you like the most.
 
nteloss said:
I read all the comments and of course I respect Cliff for the job he has done with the fractal devices. Actually the I like the fm3 because it is easy to use and dial a good sound but, as many agreed it is very close but not there yet. I am a guy that trust my ears and not the diagrams I am reading and with this state, the real amp in to the ox or the real amp in to a real cab, sounds and feels more natural to me than the Fm3 to my monitors or my Fm3 to the Return of my amp ( using the preamp only from fm3) and my real cab.
I would be very happy if the modeller could improve in this aspect because I really like it.
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What I’d love to know, and I haven’t seen you state here is how about your amp with the real cab mic’d with the same mic placement and type in another room compared with the amp model and the IR. Where you are listening through your monitors or headphones. Keeping in mind that a 5 on any knob on your amp may not be a 5 in the model due to variances. Not an OX box with an unrealistic impedance curve.

Which is closer in that scenario?

To me, all the FAS devices sound and feel just like the real mic’d up counterparts. Also, I agree with a prior statement that if you want it that close perhaps a capturing device like a Kemper or QC is more appropriate so you can capture the exact state of your amp the way you like it. However, the only frequencies you have referenced as being off will be EQ’d out of a mix. I already tend to set the low cut on the speaker to 80-100 Hz.

If you are advocating for a lower quality, less realistic speaker impedance curve like the OX; I think you will find that low priority as you are in the minority and most want a more realistic impedance curve.
 
nteloss said:
I read all the comments and of course I respect Cliff for the job he has done with the fractal devices. Actually the I like the fm3 because it is easy to use and dial a good sound but, as many agreed it is very close but not there yet. I am a guy that trust my ears and not the diagrams I am reading and with this state, the real amp in to the ox or the real amp in to a real cab, sounds and feels more natural to me than the Fm3 to my monitors or my Fm3 to the Return of my amp ( using the preamp only from fm3) and my real cab.
I would be very happy if the modeller could improve in this aspect because I really like it.
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Maybe we could make a separate thread , but you made a comment
The real amp sounds and feels better into a real cab
Where is this real cab , in the room?
And the OX I am guessing is in the room ,
 
millman said:
What I’d love to know, and I haven’t seen you state here is how about your amp with the real cab mic’d with the same mic placement and type in another room compared with the amp model and the IR. Where you are listening through your monitors or headphones. Keeping in mind that a 5 on any knob on your amp may not be a 5 in the model due to variances. Not an OX box with an unrealistic impedance curve.

Which is closer in that scenario?

To me, all the FAS devices sound and feel just like the real mic’d up counterparts. Also, I agree with a prior statement that if you want it that close perhaps a capturing device like a Kemper or QC is more appropriate so you can capture the exact state of your amp the way you like it. However, the only frequencies you have referenced as being off will be EQ’d out of a mix. I already tend to set the low cut on the speaker to 80-100 Hz.

If you are advocating for a lower quality, less realistic speaker impedance curve like the OX; I think you will find that low priority as you are in the minority and most want a more realistic impedance curve.
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This test would be very interesting, if I have the time and the right tools I will try to make it. Maybe the ox doesn’t have a realistic impedance curve, but it is the best sounding device out there. I suppose there are other OX users here, ask them and they will tell you the sameness maybe it is not the modelling lacking, but the IR’s. I had in the past kemper and hx stomp but the fm3 is much better. I have tried the quad corte and it is good but it has some fizz in the high frequencies witch I don’t like.
 
Randalljax said:
Maybe we could make a separate thread , but you made a comment
The real amp sounds and feels better into a real cab
Where is this real cab , in the room?
And the OX I am guessing is in the room ,
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Yes, the cab is in the room, the ox is in the room to my monitors and the fm3 is in the room also.
If there isn’t a similar thread, we could make it of course.
 
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nteloss said:
This test would be very interesting, if I have the time and the right tools I will try to make it. Maybe the ox doesn’t have a realistic impedance curve, but it is the best sounding device out there. I suppose there are other OX users here, ask them and they will tell you the sameness maybe it is not the modelling lacking, but the IR’s. I had in the past kemper and hx stomp but the fm3 is much better. I have tried the quad corte and it is good but it has some fizz in the high frequencies witch I don’t like.
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This is the crux of your issue.

You want to the modeling to be "improved" to match your ideal - not for accuracy.

That's not how it works with Fractal. They are improved towards accuracy.
 
nteloss, I don't know if you've seen this, but it may help you. I used to prefer running my FM3 as a preamp into my Marshall amps/cabs until I tried this. Whenever I used IRs it sounded like a mic'd up cab, which is what it's supposed to sound like, I get it. But it wasn't quite what I wanted. After doing this method I don't care if I use my amps/cabs or go direct.

 
Will Schut said:
Not to be that guy, but as some-one who has been a "Plexi-Boy" in the real world since 1984 I respectfully yet stongly disagree with you there.
I've played stages where you could actually crank a Plexi and believe me, the Fractal products have got the sound, behaviour and quirks nailed, keeping in mind that there is no such thing as a generic Plexi. Some might look the same, but in my experience each and every one of them has a unique character.
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Absolutely agree.
 
Joel.Brown333 said:
nteloss, I don't know if you've seen this, but it may help you. I used to prefer running my FM3 as a preamp into my Marshall amps/cabs until I tried this. Whenever I used IRs it sounded like a mic'd up cab, which is what it's supposed to sound like, I get it. But it wasn't quite what I wanted. After doing this method I don't care if I use my amps/cabs or go direct.

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I have seen this, this is exactly the opposite from what I am looking for :)

When I have some time I will post some demos and comparisons.
 
nteloss said:
I have tried these settings but it is not getting even close. I have a torpedo captor x and it's sound is like a toy and 2-dimentional compared to OX and FM3. If you haven't tried an UA OX, i would suggest you to try one.

If i understand correct, previously ou said that the real amp into the ox is less realistic than a model in the fractal?
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Yes. I owned the OX for some time. It is not accurate at any level of attenuation. I couldn't stand it, so I got rid of it. To each their own.
 
nteloss said:
I agree too, almost every old Marshall amp is different, but I found out that all the plexi models in fractal are quite dark sounding.
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This could have more to do with what you are hearing these through, or what cab/ir choices are made. This can have easily as much of an impact as the actual amp modeling, in my worthless opinion.
 
nteloss said:
I found out that all the plexi models in fractal are quite dark sounding
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I wonder if it is the room which contributes heavily to your opinion on the matter, room modes and all. Dark might be the last thing people think of Plexis in Fractal. This would also explain a lot of bass you are hearing in your other tests.
 
Chromatizm said:
I wonder if it is the room which contributes heavily to your opinion on the matter, room modes and all. Dark might be the last thing people think of Plexis in Fractal. This would also explain a lot of bass you are hearing in your other tests.
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I make the A/B tests in the same room.
This type of sound I am getting with my Marshall with greenback IR’s:


With the same IR’s and fm3 the sound is much darker, I will post some clips soon.
 
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