FM3 Firmware Version 5.00 beta 1

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I am not sure if this was an update problem, but I did 2 updates, well actually 3 with the FM3 edit. But I am using FM3 with FC6 and after the FW beta update I noticed that the FC6 mini displays are way off on contrast and the big blue box is showing hard but the letters are weak. I went into FM3 FC Config to adjust and the FM3 is working perfectly on contrast and brightness, but the FC6 is doing nothing. I looked all over the manuals to find a solution but found none. Before I did the FW upgrade, I also saw that there was an update for the FC6/12, version 1.12 so I went from 1.11 to 1.12 before I did the FW update last night. So I am not sure which caused it and maybe there is a simple solution, but I have no way to simply adjust contrast of the FC6 on its own. I would think it would follow the FM3 adjustments but it isn't. Anyone know of a fix or is this a bug with the firmware? TIA

Oh, and thanks for the updates Fractal. Much appreciated.

Mark Day to the rescue "Go to FM3 front panel--SETUP--FC Controllers/Onboard Switches--REMOTE-- Contrasts and brightness controls are there for the attached FC ."
 
It depends on your aims. If you back everything up and document and don't mind possible frustrations, go for it. If not, not.

When we got Cygnus I had to try it, so I tried out a beta. It was awesome, no problems. With 5, I'll wait for the official release.
Ok, tx man! I am so happy at the moment that I don't need to try the beta yet ☺️
 
Except that in this case, people went into the Mercedes dealership to buy a car and had a choice between A Class, C Class, and E Class. The A Class has a base level AC, while the other two have high end AC with heated seats. You bought the A Class anyway hoping that one day there may be an update to put it on par with the C & E but had no guarantee that would actually happen. Now that it has not happened, you are upset.

It isn't that the FM3 doesn't have a virtual capo, it is that some people find it useable live and other don't. We all have different standards. But, once again, no one ever said that this feature would definitely be ported to the FM3, so at the end of the day, those that were hoping for it, or worse, counting on it, took a gamble and, for now at least, lost. The Fractal team has clearly heard those people and I'm sure they'll do their best to find a solution, but FFS be grateful for all of the awesome stuff that we all just got for owning this unit. We get new toys basically every other month that we don't have to pay extra for. Sure, other companies do it to, but Fractal set the standard by which they all basically have to operate now. That is pretty damn awesome.
Again, a good point. But we were told the FM3 would sound the same as the Axe3, and that's why I bought it. I realize this is a statement that can be taken many ways, so I'll leave it at that.
And it HAS has been updated numerous times to include other improvements on the AXE3, so it isn't unreasonable to ask for another, right?
I'm neither hating on the FM3 nor upset that I bought it. I just am expressing the simple belief that a Virtual Capo update would be much more useful than a lot of things (or in my case, almost all the things) that HAVE been improved since release.
If expressing that sounds to you like I am ungrateful, that's on you. I am not.
 
So, been testing stuff out a bit and CPU usage is dramatically improved. This preset of mine, I wasn't able to run the Drive block before the beta as the CPU usage would constantly go into RED territory. I'm using Ultra-High quality on the Reverb and 8 for Echo Density. CPU usage is beneath 80% at ALL times with the DRIVE block added in o_O Now that's some serious optimization going on there. Running the Stereo Analog Delay and 1 Ultra-Res IR. If I use both Cab slots (2 Ultra-Res IRs) it takes me to 84% which is still usable ... impressive.

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LE: ..and it gets even more interesting; added a "Pitch Block" with the "Virtual Capo", Tracking set to "10" + another filter block and I'm around 80.5 % - 83% with one Ultra-Res IR. Latency is un-noticeable really and very playable.

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You make several good points. But can you imagine going into a Mercedes dealer and finding that their C-class doesn't have air-conditioning?
It all comes down to how important the Virtual Capo is to your performance. To some it is far more important than other features that continually get updated.
Fair points, though I bet there are a fair number of people who are bummed because they want a convertible but they have only the budget for the A-class. It's arguably a product strategy choice rather than design failure. My point is that FAS may already recognize a minority prefer one particular thing to be updated of all else, but that FAS would please a vast majority by doing another thing. It's their prerogative to find that balance. Having said that, they never know if they're wrong if people don't say so :)
 
I was deterred from even trying Fractal gear for literally YEARS because of the reputation of the community as elitist/snobs/xenophobic, etc. Once I got my Axe Fx III and actually started participating, I definitely understood the fanboism that the gear of this level inspires, but, other than a few moments of friction here and there, it's been largely a pleasant experience as an owner and community member.

But you're right; to this day, there's still far too much "RTFM" and "then buy something else."
Honest question here: How would you prefer that experienced forum members respond in situations like this? Fractal units are complicated, but there are tons of outstanding resources out there: the manual, existing forum threads, and youtube videos from a variety of outstanding players with tons of knowledge about the unit. I think people mistake genuine frustration from experienced users as "mob mentality" because many of those folks just haven't done the necessary due diligence to learn how the unit functions at a basic level. Sometimes people say to RTFM because that is the best place to find the answer to your questions. Sometimes they say to buy something else because that is honestly the best solution for your problem. Most people on this forum, particularly those that have been around a long time, are not mean or unreasonable, but they do expect you to do your due diligence before flaming the company over something.
 
Honest question here: How would you prefer that experienced forum members respond in situations like this? Fractal units are complicated, but there are tons of outstanding resources out there: the manual, existing forum threads, and youtube videos from a variety of outstanding players with tons of knowledge about the unit. I think people mistake genuine frustration from experienced users as "mob mentality" because many of those folks just haven't done the necessary due diligence to learn how the unit functions at a basic level. Sometimes people say to RTFM because that is the best place to find the answer to your questions. Sometimes they say to buy something else because that is honestly the best solution for your problem. Most people on this forum, particularly those that have been around a long time, are not mean or unreasonable, but they do expect you to do your due diligence before flaming the company over something.
I’ve helped a lot over the years. At one point I would screenshot the page in the manual that has the specific answer and I would still be told “I don’t want to read that just tell me the answer”. Which is strange because if I typed the answer they would have to read it. There is just an aversion to manuals sometimes.

So I copy and pasted the text from the manual directly below the screenshot and the guy said “thanks I finally got the answer.”

Shrug.
 
I think people are forgetting that the Axe3 processors are more powerful than the FM3’s. That doesn’t just mean fitting more things in the grid, but the speed and efficiency of the computations.
I don't think "forgetting" is the right term in this case. This is a point I brought up elsewhere; I - and I'm sure many others like me - bought the unit knowing it would only be able to have one amp block, 2 delays, fewer I/O options, etc. We were okay with it being "less powerful" (as it was understood at the time). I don't think any of us realized that certain algorithms entirely from the flagship wouldn't port to the FM3; I'm sure I'm not the only one who assumed under the hood they were the same except the FM3 just couldn't handle as many blocks.

I guess, in the cold light of day, it should have been obvious, as there are some differences/omissions in the amp block, compressor block, and the global settings & setup menu, among others.

But I'm sure many of us don't know the difference (or didn't realize there was a difference) between the CPU/DSP that allows a given number of blocks to run on the grid and the ability to run a particular algorithm regardless of how full the grid was or how high the CPU status bar filled up. I just thought, well, the improved pitch block will probably take up a few more percentage points of CPU. No biggie. Worth it.

I know people have asked for global blocks; is this now not possible because of the kind of DSP limitations that is preventing the pitch block from being updated with the Axe III's algorithm? I guess it all makes sense now, but I have to reiterate: while there surely are people that understood the differences in CPU/DSP, I think the vast majority are people like me who just assumed that lower power meant fewer blocks. To me, since I don't know anything about how it all works, if the FM3 can run the same amp block as the Axe Fx III, why can't it run the pitch block as well? The amp block is simply astounding, as are the delay blocks, reverb, pitch, etc.

I get it now, but this is new information to me that's less than 24 hours old after having owned the FM3 for 7 months and the Axe Fx III for 3.5 years.

YMMV; i don't wish to project my ignorance on everyone else, and if I'm alone in my lack of understanding, shame on me. In any case, I'm happy with everything about the Axe Fx III, so I can probably just go back to using that if I can't live with the FM3 knowing that the Virtual Capo, effectively, is as good as it's going to get.
 
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I’ve helped a lot over the years. At one point I would screenshot the page in the manual that has the specific answer and I would still be told “I don’t want to read that just tell me the answer”. Which is strange because if I typed the answer they would have to read it. There is just an aversion to manuals sometimes.

So I copy and pasted the text from the manual directly below the screenshot and the guy said “thanks I finally got the answer.”

Shrug.
I have been the beneficiary of help from you and many others, Chris. I think the reason that I bring up the lack of gratitude or people not doing their due dilligence is so that people like you continue to want to help people like me or even those just getting started.

I was an AX8 owner before owning the FM3 and this forum was a lot smaller then. Now, a lot of new folks ask a lot of the same questions and it is clear that many very experienced people on this forum are fatigued by a lot of the same questions that could have been answered by some of the aforementioned resources. For better or for worse, these units are extremely complicated and feature-rich. They can do a lot of stuff, but they do take a lot of time to learn well and while reading manuals can be tedious and boring, sometimes that is exactly the place you need to go to find your answer.
 
Perhaps this is part of the problem for us on the outside, not understanding your work flow. And not that you owe us an explanation of that, by the way. It's none of our business.
But when you say we really had to do "everything else" first, it's confusing for us morons, who don't understand why you "had to."
It’s important to remember that these devices are primarily software with dedicated hardware to support it. In software development, especially when working against a roadmap of future features that are where the company wants the product to go, and a long-standing wishlist of requests from the users, the team has to find the changes and additions that add the most “bang for the buck”.

In other words, if they add code block A, and it only supports future feature 1, is that a better development effort over B which supports 2, 3, 4 and 5? No, it’s not. In my past lives we’d go with the code that supports more subsequent features. What if A can be knocked out in an afternoon and B will take weeks? Then we'd hash it out in subsequent meetings and decide priorities and add them to the project timeline, and we'd stick to the timeline unless something huge forces a change, because humans suck at context switching, and switching back and forth to different tasks is an invitation for bugs in the code and major discontent in the workers.

Fractal maintains a set of master wishlists for bugs and wishes. If something is not on the list it doesn’t mean they are ignoring it, because the lists are periodically curated, instead the odds are good it will be added during the next cycle. At the same time it doesn’t hurt to participate in the thread for that request to help shape what is being asked for and show it is important to you and why. If one person says they want something without any sort of specifics then my teams would have read it and shuffled it into the “for further consideration” stack unless it’s obviously important and the features are clear. If a bunch of people asked and helped define the features then the request would get a lot higher priority, but maybe not top priority because it still has to fit into the timeline and other coding efforts.

The idea is that there are intelligent decisions made to get from point to point in the product’s feature growth, based on the company’s resources, it’s not a crapshoot, nor is it whim or fancy. They listen, they provide a view into what has been requested, it’s for us to look and then trust them to work toward something that is in the best interest of the product and the company and all the users/customers.

In other words, I would trade this entire update and everything in it for an improved Virtual Capo. The amp improvements, the block improvements, the UI improvements, all of it, etc.
This is where we differ. I have absolutely no use for that.

The user base has a wide variety of styles, and while some play a style that would use it and want that, others see it as an “oh, there’s that for them” feature. And Fractal is aware of the user base so they try to prioritize, again based on the project timeline. That something is not there is not a personal attack that some make it out to be, the inclusion or exclusion is based on hard limits in processing power and the goals for the product with a little steering from the community.

[...]
So we ask ourselves, is it that Virtual Capo improvements are impossible to do, or that other things just had priority (had to do "everything else")? Again, you don't have to answer that question. But it is something at least some of us are wondering. And it can be difficult to understand why it is more important to improve a block 3 or 4 percent when a major feature for live gigging is not usable.
Because the "3 or 4 percent" that was seen in that block might be the tip of the iceberg of a major code optimization that will affect other effects, or maybe even enable them to exist. Those improvements in speed and efficiency could make all the difference in getting the improved tracking you want. That they're chasing those improvements says a lot about Fractal. I'm happy for every gain in the system, every improvement in the modeling or flexibility. Those make the unit even more powerful and useful, whether I use them or not.

I think these are legitimate thoughts to have on a forum that don't deserve other forum members telling them to "buy something else."
While "buy something else" might seem abrupt, we're expected to do that in real life in so many other devices we use, from our cell phones, to our TVs, cars, cameras, amplifiers, effect pedals, etc. We're expected to analyze our needs, make a purchase, use it and determine if it truly meets those needs, and if it doesn't, what do we do? We return it or sell it, and "buy something else."

Railing at the company sometimes works when a product that already has a feature turns out to have defects in the design. In my experience, only security and safety defects get addressed consistently. Fractal is a shining star when it comes to their products and their responsiveness.
 
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I believe this statement was always in regard to amp modeling. “Sound the same” is not the same as “have every feature of the Axe3.”
Chris, I believe you are correct here. And because the Virtual Capo is a part of my sound, it's entirely likely that I read more into that statement than was intended. But I'm probably not the only one who doesn't need more compressors, phasers, delays or reverbs. As we have watched a lot of things from the AXE3 being added to to the FM3, I hope one can understand there is a certain level of frustration that goes into seeing improvements that, in at least one person's opinion, don't really improve a live performance. The FM3 is a live performance machine first and foremost. In 2022, I hope more attention is paid to features that improve the user experience and make live performances better. The Virtual Capo is an essential feature for a lot of gigging guitarists, so I'll keep advocating for it.
 
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. For better or for worse, these units are extremely complicated and feature-rich. They can do a lot of stuff, but they do take a lot of time to learn well and while reading manuals can be tedious and boring, sometimes that is exactly the place you need to go to find your answer.
Very true, these products are very feature rich and appeal to a broad spectrum of players. Some users just need basic features and it can be difficult to wade through everything else. I am sure the FM3 can do all sorts of things that I have no idea about, but that is ok, because it does what I want it to do for me. I have referenced the manual when trying to resolve certain issues/questions, but I have honestly never read it from front to back. There are so many awesome videos online that are very helpful. Leon's videos in particular got me up and running right away when I purchased my first FM3.
 
And it can be difficult to understand why it is more important to improve a block 3 or 4 percent when a major feature for live gigging is not usable.
I would really like to express my strong opinion, once and for all, that the virtual capo is NOT some necessary prerequisite for live/band playing. In fact, tons of bands, from never-gigging jam collectives to multi-million dollar enterprises, play live WITHOUT a virtual capo (or a real one, for that matter).

I completely understand that it is an interesting option for certain musical styles, with certain guitar equipment limitations etc. But to insist on the virtual capo being "essential" or even a "major feature" for gigging is a thoroughly skewed perspective, IMHO.
 
The Virtual Capo is an essential feature for a lot of gigging guitarists, so I'll keep advocating for it.
absolutely. people have been asking for an answer, and we have one for now. but that doesn't mean it's never ever a possibility ever. it's just not possible now.

I would really like to express my strong opinion, once and for all, that the virtual capo is NOT some necessary prerequisite for live/band playing. In fact, tons of bands, from never-gigging jam collectives to multi-million dollar enterprises, play live WITHOUT a virtual capo (or a real one, for that matter).

I completely understand that it is an interesting option for certain musical styles, with certain guitar equipment limitations etc. But to insist on the virtual capo being "essential" or even a "major feature" for gigging is a thoroughly skewed perspective, IMHO.
i have to agree. yes, some styles of music use a whammy or pitch shift often. but personally i've never used or needed a virtual capo or whammy for the music i play, thousands of gigs on the Fractal gear.

is VC convenient for downtuning certain songs? yes. is an octave up/down effect present in popular guitar songs? yes it's in some songs.

would it be great if everything everyone ever needed was in the FM3? yes. but if a pitch effects is THAT important, it actually is a great idea to get a pedal dedicated to that effect, so you always have it, and that frees up CPU space in the FM3 to use other blocks.
 
I would really like to express my strong opinion, once and for all, that the virtual capo is NOT some necessary prerequisite for live/band playing. In fact, tons of bands, from never-gigging jam collectives to multi-million dollar enterprises, play live WITHOUT a virtual capo (or a real one, for that matter).

I completely understand that it is an interesting option for certain musical styles, with certain guitar equipment limitations etc. But to insist on the virtual capo being "essential" or even a "major feature" for gigging is a thoroughly skewed perspective, IMHO.
If it’s essential then get a more guitars tuned in different tunings right?
 
That something is not there is not a personal attack that some make it out to be, the inclusion or exclusion is based on hard limits in processing power and the goals for the product with a little steering from the community.

Because the "3 or 4 percent" that was seen in that block might be the tip of the iceberg of a major code optimization that will affect other effects, or maybe even enable them to exist. Those improvements in speed and efficiency could make all the difference in getting the improved tracking you want. That they're chasing those improvements says a lot about Fractal. I'm happy for every gain in the system, every improvement in the modeling or flexibility. Those make the unit even more powerful and useful, whether I use them or not.

While "buy something else" might seem abrupt, we're expected to do that in real life in so many other devices we use, from our cell phones, to our TVs, cars, cameras, amplifiers, effect pedals, etc. We're expected to analyze our needs, make a purchase, use it and determine if it truly meets those needs, and if it doesn't, what do we do? We return it or sell it, and "buy something else."

Railing at the company sometimes works when a product that already has a feature turns out to have defects in the design. In my experience, only security and safety defects get addressed consistently. Fractal is a shining star when it comes to their products and their responsiveness.
I would never take Fractal's update schedule as a personal attack. But I absolutely believe the company focuses more on those 3 or 4 percent improvement discoveries than it does on what I would call the user experience. Which is entirely their right. I'll continue advocating for what works for me.
As far as "buy something else," I already own an AXE3. I use the FM3 as a fly rig. I honestly don't expect it to sound as good as an AXE3. I just, personally, would like to see different improvements than the ones they have made. Which I think is a legitimate position to take.

I would really like to express my strong opinion, once and for all, that the virtual capo is NOT some necessary prerequisite for live/band playing. In fact, tons of bands, from never-gigging jam collectives to multi-million dollar enterprises, play live WITHOUT a virtual capo (or a real one, for that matter).

I completely understand that it is an interesting option for certain musical styles, with certain guitar equipment limitations etc. But to insist on the virtual capo being "essential" or even a "major feature" for gigging is a thoroughly skewed perspective, IMHO.
I don't use it to play certain styles. I use it for the many re-tunings required to play the songs my several bands play.
I suppose you can call my perspective skewed, and I can call yours skewed, and it gets us nowhere.
From my perspective, many, many, many people on these forms have been asking for this improvement, first for years with the AXE, and now with the FM3.
 
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