Fixing a backward latching switch

Ben.Last said:
Yep. That's the functionality I'm getting with this switch, except with its on off nature reversed when in latching. It's on all the time unless I press it, unless I switch the slope. I think it might technically be marketed as a sustain pedal, if that indicates anything.
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That sounds like a normally closed momentary switch.

And sustain pedals are not latching, either.

Try setting the switch in the settings to normally closed momentary.
 
Yeah that's most likely a momentary switch. If you want to use it with momentary action (active only while you hold it down) or as a Stand In switch, set the menu option to Follow Hardware. If you want to use it assigned directly to parameters for toggle/latching functions (press once for on and again for off), set it to Virtual Toggle. That will make a hardware momentary switch behave like a latching/toggle switch.

The polarity won't matter for Virtual Toggle use, but for momentary use you'll have to set the polarity to match the default on or off state of the switch. Set the polarity to Normally Open/Momentary Make then go look at the graph of a modifier you have assigned to that switch. If it's correct, the dot will be on the right side of the graph when you are not pressing the switch. If it's over on the left, change the polarity in the menu to Normally Close/Momentary Break.
 
mr_fender said:
Yeah that's most likely a momentary switch. If you want to use it with momentary action (active only while you hold it down) or as a Stand In switch, set the menu option to Follow Hardware. If you want to use it assigned directly to parameters for toggle/latching functions (press once for on and again for off), set it to Virtual Toggle. That will make a hardware momentary switch behave like a latching/toggle switch.

The polarity won't matter for Virtual Toggle use, but for momentary use you'll have to set the polarity to match the default on or off state of the switch. Set the polarity to Normally Open/Momentary Make then go look at the graph of a modifier you have assigned to that switch. If it's correct, the dot will be on the right side of the graph when you are not pressing the switch. If it's over on the left, change the polarity in the menu to Normally Close/Momentary Break.
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It's set to follow hardware, because I do want it to work like a momentary.

It works like a momentary (even though it does so when set to latching), that's not the problem, the problem is that on that modifier graph its default state is to the right, no matter which polarity I set it to, which is the on/100% state. It's default state when not being pressed should be off/0%. I can't find a way to reverse it other than inverting the start and end points of the modifier slope every time I want to build a preset with the pedal involved. It feels like there should be a global way to fix this, but changing the polarity definitely isn't doing it. That's all my starting point already.
 
And, actually, it occurs to me that this pedal is plugged into a pedal input, not a external switch input, so the behavior and polarity settings aren't even for it. So, there's even fewer things to try.
 
I think you're confusing things...

From your description of behavior, you have a momentary switch.

Setting the switch option to Latching doesn't make it a latching switch.
 
Plug it into one of the switch inputs and the polarity setting will reverse the action like you want. Using the incorrect setting will prevent you from using it as a stand in switch though as the hold functions won't work right.
 
unix-guy said:
I think you're confusing things...

From your description of behavior, you have a momentary switch.

Setting the switch option to Latching doesn't make it a latching switch.
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Totally, but it's functioning as a momentary switch when set to latching.
 
mr_fender said:
Plug it into one of the switch inputs and the polarity setting will reverse the action like you want. Using the incorrect setting will prevent you from using it as a stand in switch though as the hold functions won't work right.
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But there's no way to globally do so for things in the pedal inputs, correct? So, we're back at there's no other solution?
 
Ben.Last said:
But there's no way to globally do so for things in the pedal inputs, correct? So, we're back at there's no other solution?
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Would you please clarify which device you're plugging the switch into? I have a latching switch and an FC-6 and Axe III I can experiment with tomorrow and want to make sure to use the correct device. I've only used the FC-6 and would find it unlikely to make a difference but I'd rather make sure.
 
Ben.Last said:
But there's no way to globally do so for things in the pedal inputs, correct? So, we're back at there's no other solution?
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Nope, not with the pedal inputs. You'd have to swap out the switch with one of the opposite polarity (normally open vs normally closed) or swap the curve direction like you're doing now.
 
JoKeR III said:
Would you please clarify which device you're plugging the switch into? I have a latching switch and an FC-6 and Axe III I can experiment with tomorrow and want to make sure to use the correct device. I've only used the FC-6 and would find it unlikely to make a difference but I'd rather make sure.
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The pedal is plugged into pedal input 2 on my FC-6
 
Ben.Last said:
Totally, but it's functioning as a momentary switch when set to latching.
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Because it IS a momentary switch.

Again, that setting doesn't alter the switch behavior. It tells the unit what kind of switch it's expecting to be connected.
 
unix-guy said:
Because it IS a momentary switch.

Again, that setting doesn't alter the switch behavior. It tells the unit what kind of switch it's expecting to be connected.
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Does that account for why it functions as a latching switch when set to momentary?
 
Ben.Last said:
Does that account for why it functions as a latching switch when set to momentary?
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What are the other settings for the switch?

If it's momentary normally closed then it might appear to the unit as if it's latching closed if you set the type as latching.

From you earlier description, you have to hold it for it to stay off, right?

Do this: perform a Calibration as if you have an expression pedal attached.

Without touching the switch, what value is on the value bar?

Next, press and hold the switch? What happens?

Release the switch: what happens?
 
unix-guy said:
What are the other settings for the switch?

If it's momentary normally closed then it might appear to the unit as if it's latching closed if you set the type as latching.

From you earlier description, you have to hold it for it to stay off, right?

Do this: perform a Calibration as if you have an expression pedal attached.

Without touching the switch, what value is on the value bar?

Next, press and hold the switch? What happens?

Release the switch: what happens?
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The setting for the PEDAL is latching.

If I hold it it stays OFF. If I let it go it turns ON.

WIthout pressing the pedal it's at 100, if I press it it goes down to 0.

If I switch it to momentary it starts at 0, if I press it it goes up to 100 and stays there until I press it again.
 
When using a switch in one of the pedal inputs, the intended behavior is a toggling controller. When you set it to Momentary, the unit ignores every other switch state change in order to make it behave like a toggle switch. This is basically the same behavior as the Virtual Toggle setting on the Switch inputs. The Latching setting does not ignore any state changes because it is expecting the switch itself to actually do the latching. This is the equivalent of the Follow Hardware setting for the Switch inputs. Your switch can't latch, so the expected latching behavior becomes a momentary one. Similarly, if you had a physical latching switch and you set it to momentary, you'd have to press the switch twice to get it to change since the momentary setting ignores every other state change. The setting for the pedal input is not the type of response you'll get, it's the type of pedal the unit is expecting to have connected. If set to match the physical switch type, both will give you a toggling controller. If you mismatch the setting, you'll get an unexpected behavior.
 
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