First live show coming up with AxeFX- stereo or mono?

BrickGlass

BrickGlass

Inspired
I know there are some other threads over the years about this, but I wanted to get some help so I thought I'd start my own thread. I'm in a Queensryche cover band and we usually use a lot of channels to do the job justice. Sometimes we literally take up the entire mixing board at some venues, so we will go with one less drum mic or I'll end up playing an acoustic part on the clean of an electric. Just depends on how many channels are available on the board, and every venue is different. I'm using a stereo setup right now. I want to run output 1 to FOH and give them a L and R so I'm still running stereo, and then I would run output 2 to my two CLR wedges and go stereo there as well. It is absolutely possible though that there may not be enough channels available for me to run stereo. I already use up five channels with my electric, piezo, 12-string, electric nylon, and vocal, so sound guys are already annoyed by me. They tend to just want one electric signal, and maybe an acoustic before they start grumbling about making their lives more difficult.

If I need to change to mono, is this something that I can do at the gig easily, or do I need to get it all ready to go ahead of time? Can I just switch the output 1 to L+R sum instead of stereo? I have output 2 set to echo output 1. Really the only things I'm using that are stereo are some delays and chorus. I don't use two amps at the same time or anything. My cab block is set to stereo. I use the 2290 delay on my leads and I've read that if you go mono on that you won't hear any delay at all. Should I just use a mono delay and put the chorus before the amp so that it defaults to mono? Just trying to prevent issues ahead of time. Don't want to be that guy that causes problems 5 minutes before we are supposed to start the show. Thanks in advance.
 
As long as you don't the phase reverse set in the delay block you should be fine. Test it with one of your CLR's beforehand to be sure.
 
BrickGlass said:
I already use up five channels with my electric, piezo, 12-string, electric nylon, and vocal, so sound guys are already annoyed by me. They tend to just want one electric signal, and maybe an acoustic before they start grumbling about making their lives more difficult.
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Sounds like having your own small mixer on stage as part of your rig to handle all the instrument ins at least would be the solution there.

Keeping your vocal feed obviously separate it would take you down to 2 FOH channels (mono instrument feed + vox) or 3 FOH channels (stereo instruments + vox).
 
that 2290 delay with give you trouble because it inverts phase on one side. I currently run stereo and use L/R Sum when I need to play mono. I only run Pitch, Delay, Verb and Rotary in stereo. They all sum to mono just fine because I have no phase inversion.

I suggest making patches for your Piezo and 12 string in your Axe so you don't need extra channels for those.
 
BrickGlass said:
Really the only things I'm using that are stereo are some delays and chorus.
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I would make mono copies of your presets, test them and use whatever fits the venue best. The 2290 in AFX has a phase inversion toggle, so turn it off for mono compatibility. This way you'll make sure nothing is lost and your presets work everywhere. It's very easy to do.

However, I don't think there's a lot of sense using those particular stereo effects except in the smallest of venues. Very few, if any, people will be able to hear them properly, so you're just complicating matters unnecessarily.

I personally do use stereo sometimes, but we do use panning - placing guitars left and right using 2 AFXs (actually, almost 4 guitars, using dual amps and dual cabs - not really quad-track, but sort of like it), and center for solo. But that's mostly because lots of sound guys do pan guitars anyway, so it's just better to do this ourselves, asking them to pan both center so we can move things around. By doing that we make sure each half of the audience hears both guitars and everybody hears solos.
 
One thing I discovered in the last few weeks: beware how Cab IRs interact when going from stereo to mono. I had a few patches I set up with dual CLRs that sounded great when I stood right between them like studio monitors. When I put them into a single CLR to check mono it sounded like crap.

Most stock cabs blend together fine but some are probably phase shifted a bit and just don't play nicely with others. Playing with phase parameter in cab changes the sound, but doesn't fix it.
 
I use L/R Sum on output 1. No problems. Using a TRS cable into a TRS input I keep output 1 set to stereo. It depends on what system I am plugging into.
 
6stringscott said:
One thing I discovered in the last few weeks: beware how Cab IRs interact when going from stereo to mono. I had a few patches I set up with dual CLRs that sounded great when I stood right between them like studio monitors. When I put them into a single CLR to check mono it sounded like crap.

Most stock cabs blend together fine but some are probably phase shifted a bit and just don't play nicely with others. Playing with phase parameter in cab changes the sound, but doesn't fix it.
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that's why i choose to keep the outputs set to Stereo, and just use 1 cable. you won't be summing anything, just using one side if you do hard pan anything.

i use a Dual Delay hard panned for my lead tone; the left is a short delay, the right is longer. when i get to the gig, i'll decide if i want a shorter or longer delay that night, and send the appropriate side.

that's just one example, but for the IR example, maybe one side is dark and the other is bright, you can send the bright side at one venue or use the dark one at a different place, etc.

definitely a weird way to do things, but it works if you can keep the differences in your head :)
 
Geezerjohn said:
I use L/R Sum on output 1. No problems. Using a TRS cable into a TRS input I keep output 1 set to stereo. It depends on what system I am plugging into.
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hmm, a TRS cable doesn't send stereo signal; it'd just be mono. and the outputs are Unbalanced anyway so TRS isn't really doing anything - why the TRS?

if it works, it works, but just want to make sure it's clear what's happening.
 
I never run stereo for live, since most PA systems are set for mono.
For live I'm set L/R Sum with left echo off and run an FX loop after everything except one last graphic EQ. I keep the EQ off if I am going L/R to my power amp / 4 12 cab and I mic the cab. Graphic EQ is on and adjusted accordingly if I go direct from channel 1 to FOH.
This way I get any panning, delays, etc blended together and I don't have to send 2 cables.
 
These days my live tones are mono. A mono CAB block saves CPU.

I keep the Output set to stereo, use a cable from either output and made sure there's no panning in my presets.
 
Really appreciate the comments here guys. This place is extremely helpful. Looking like I might go with what yek and Chris do and just keep my output set to stereo and then just give the sound guy one cable from the AxeFx. I do have a couple questions if I end up going this route:

1. I'm using the analog stereo chorus. I've got the LFO phase set to 180 and I run it after the amp. Do I need to set the LFO to 0 since I'm going to be giving the sound guy only one cable from my AxeFx? Should I set up a different chorus that is mono instead? I read something about running it before the amp and it becomes mono so you set the phase to 0.

2. brokenvail mentioned that the 2290 delay may give me some issues if I go mono. Is there a way to fix the invert phase issue he brought up? Should I just go with a different delay that is mono? I love the sound of the 2290, but it isn't a huge deal to use something different.

3. Any issues that may arise from giving the sound guy just one cable so it ends up being mono for the PA, but then running two cables and going stereo to both my CLR wedges? I don't really think the crowd will be hearing much of my CLR's. More just for myself at the back of the stage. I don't plan on running the CLR's in backline mode so they will be pointing up using the wedge mode.
 
For the chorus, just try it yourself and see what only one side sounds like. Chances are it's fine and very similar.

The 2290 can phase cancel when you SUM left and right. That's the whole point of keeping it set to stereo and just using one side. You aren't summing anything, just using one side. One side means nothing can cancel it.

Probably nothing bad will happen. I do it all the time.
 
I run stereo, pan hard left and right. Suppose it depends on your monitoring situation too, I run IEM and prefer having it stereo. Our PA is hooked up stereo anyway and most other systems we play through are. To me, the sound is better through PA and sits in the mix better too.

So if you are using IEM defo go stereo.
 
I keep everything stereo and just use Out 1 L to FOH for mono.

Like others, I don't to any ping pong or dramatic stereo special efx that rely on both channels.

Sounds great.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
hmm, a TRS cable doesn't send stereo signal; it'd just be mono. and the outputs are Unbalanced anyway so TRS isn't really doing anything - why the TRS?

if it works, it works, but just want to make sure it's clear what's happening.
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I use a TRS Y cable so I can send a left and right signal to a single TRS input at the effects return. Can't plug two mono signals into one input. I could use a mono cable out the left output and set the output to L/R Sum, but it does not sound as good as leaving the output set to stereo and using the TRS. You are correct in that the signals are mono, but by using a TRS cable I get both the left output signal and the right output signal. Since the effects return is a stereo return, I get both signals. I do use the balanced XLR's for FOH but in large venues I use a stage monitor so I use output 2 run with the TRS to the effects return of a 100w Line 6 Flextone.
 
Geezerjohn said:
I use a TRS Y cable so I can send a left and right signal to a single TRS input at the effects return. Can't plug two mono signals into one input. I could use a mono cable out the left output and set the output to L/R Sum, but it does not sound as good as leaving the output set to stereo and using the TRS. You are correct in that the signals are mono, but by using a TRS cable I get both the left output signal and the right output signal. Since the effects return is a stereo return, I get both signals. I do use the balanced XLR's for FOH but in large venues I use a stage monitor so I use output 2 run with the TRS to the effects return of a 100w Line 6 Flextone.
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Understood. You said "TRS" originally, which isn't the same as TRS to TS Y cable, that you just clarified. TRS stereo inputs are rare, so just wanted to make sure.
 
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