Exactly How much better is a RCF NX12SMA over a QSC K12 ?????

Dealmaker

Dealmaker

Inspired
Guys

Looking to buy a FRFR set up - for practice and gigging.

I can't buy an RCF from my "usual" dealer (nor audition one) so I would need to pay full retail for it - whereas I can get a good deal from him on a QSC K12.

So the question I am asking myself is exactly how much better is the RCF than the QSC ??? Is it worth nearly twice the price???..as that's the sort of differential we are talking about in my case?

Thanks!
 
It's not twice the price. Not even close, unless you're getting some amazing discount on the K12s. Email mike@audiopyle.com. His price is sufficiently good that he's asked it not be posted publicly.

I auditioned the K12s, and I thought they sounded terrible. Harsh and unpleasant. The RCF is the best option out there right now in the <$1500 range. That may change once the Atomic and/or Matrix are out, but right now it's hands down the best.
 
Ahh. Sorry, I was wrongly assuming you were in the US. If it really is twice the price, that's a harder question. It's a lot better than the K12. However, there are cheaper speakers than both that I liked a lot -- better than the K12. My recommendation for value speaker is the EV ELX112P -- though I don't know what it goes for in your market. The Yamaha DSR12 was a close second from what I auditioned at Guitar Center. The K12 was an immediate disqualification for me.

Can you wait? I don't know how the Matrix and Atomic options will work out in your market, but maybe it'll be better. At the price we can get the RCF for here from Mike, it's an incredibly good option. I'd pay twice, three times, four times, or more for the RCF over the K12 if those were the only two options, simply because I didn't like the K12. At retail price for both here, the RCF is more than 2.5x the price of the EV, but Mike's price narrows that gap a bit. At the price I paid, I feel it was worth it for me. The gap between the RCF (at Mike's price) and the K12 (which is more than the EV by $250) in US pricing is narrower.

Here are my thoughts (and those of others in response) on the EV vs RCF:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-...vs-ev-elx112p-first-thoughts-mini-review.html
 
I owned the k12 for a few years. The sound was kind of abrasive to me. It rocked and I got great tone from it buy was never totally pleased with it's interaction with me as a wedge. If I had to use them again I could and with good results. I know have the rcf. It is over all a much more please experience for me with a speaker counting right at me. I love it. Look into DB technologies. I suggested it to another guy here he bought one and is loving it. They own RFC and sell 10 and 12 inch powered coaxial wedges and they are less expensive than the RCF. I think the key is the coaxial design. It really changes how the sound comes at us and I like the difference
 
It's not the coax thing alone. There are awful coax designs out there (do I have to say names again? ;-) )...
I talked to a RCF/ db tech rep lately. He told me the RCF is designed to be flat, the db tech is not.
 
bkrodgers said:
I auditioned the K12s, and I thought they sounded terrible. Harsh and unpleasant.
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I own a K12 and I find it to be quite the opposite. Then again, I've not compared it to an RCF. But compared to similar 12" floor wedges from EV and Mackie, it comes out far ahead.

Here's the thing with all this discussion of FRFR solutions. You might get your rig sounding awesome on stage with a high end wedge, but what does the guy out front have the band going through? I think we're on the diminishing returns end of things when you spend nearly double. And yes, it is nearly double. I got my brand new K12 for $750. The RCF is $1599. So it's actually more than double.
 
merlin17 said:
It's not the coax thing alone. There are awful coax designs out there (do I have to say names again? ;-) )...
I talked to a RCF/ db tech rep lately. He told me the RCF is designed to be flat, the db tech is not.
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Why would they not want to have a flat wedge by design. Kind of odd
 
Rcf is just a better put together wedge to my ears. To while using the k12 I felt like the sound was just smacking me in the face all at once while the rcf u can distinguish the lo's and hi end nicely. And by far the greatest advantage is ear fatigue. With the k12 I use to always leave the gig with some ringing while the rcf ive gotten none and have owned it a few months playing it 3-4 times a week at very nice volumes. More expensive absolutely but without a doubt worth it.
 
I dig my k12, light, loud, getting great tones (dont understand the horrible comment) anything but horrible, unbeatable warranty. I got mine open box at GC for $650 so i'm not bummed. I cant belive the rcf would be $1k(ish) better sounding... all in the IR's you use IMHO.
 
brokenvail said:
Why would they not want to have a flat wedge by design. Kind of odd
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Monitors for singers don't need to sound that flat. Singers can not tweak their voices and they do not switch from clean to crunch. All that singers need is a sound that they like. The monitor doesn't need to show if the sound they selected works in the mix, because they only have that one personel sound of their voice wich they can not change dramatically.
So it's a different target when you use such a monitor for a guitar.
When your sounds are not too many and they are tweaked right at home using good studio monitors and when you are absolutly sure how a certain sound works in the mix of a certain song and you don't need to judge by ear how your sound is right in the moment when you play....then you also wouldn't have to worry about the sound of your preset and could use an unflat monitor and just play. In theory only, I bet even the best players would fail and it sucks also to have a crappy sound.

At least a cab that is designed as a PA-speaker and can be abused as a monitor should always be designed to sound as flat as can.
The cheap stuff just don't reach the target because of cheap components, not as a follow of the design targets.
 
The K12 has modes for vocal (scooped) and Flat which indicates it can be used for either purpose and has been designed with flat response in mind.
 
666was999 said:
Monitors for singers don't need to sound that flat. Singers can not tweak their voices and they do not switch from clean to crunch. All that singers need is a sound that they like. The monitor doesn't need to show if the sound they selected works in the mix, because they only have that one personel sound of their voice wich they can not change dramatically.
So it's a different target when you use such a monitor for a guitar.
When your sounds are not too many and they are tweaked right at home using good studio monitors and when you are absolutly sure how a certain sound works in the mix of a certain song and you don't need to judge by ear how your sound is right in the moment when you play....then you also wouldn't have to worry about the sound of your preset and could use an unflat monitor and just play. In theory only, I bet even the best players would fail and it sucks also to have a crappy sound.

At least a cab that is designed as a PA-speaker and can be abused as a monitor should always be designed to sound as flat as can.
The cheap stuff just don't reach the target because of cheap components, not as a follow of the design targets.
Click to expand...

We guitar players are not the target for these companies. Matrix and Atomic maybe but RCF QSC and the others not so much. I know why we benefit and want a speakers to be flat. Merlin's comment was that he was told RCF's are designed to be flat and DB's are not which implies they are designed to not be flat. Not being flat by design is a different animal than designing to be flat but cutting costs on components not allowing you to get completely flat.
 
redburst21 said:
Rcf is just a better put together wedge to my ears. To while using the k12 I felt like the sound was just smacking me in the face all at once while the rcf u can distinguish the lo's and hi end nicely. And by far the greatest advantage is ear fatigue. With the k12 I use to always leave the gig with some ringing while the rcf ive gotten none and have owned it a few months playing it 3-4 times a week at very nice volumes. More expensive absolutely but without a doubt worth it.
Click to expand...

This is a true statement by the way. I can play the longer with less ear fatigue than I could the k
 
I own both. Sort of. I have a K8 and K12. I wasnt ever really happy with the sound and eventually got a RCF-10 SMA. It's good. Really good. Actually-STORY TIME!
So I was at practice last night. I use a matrix1K into a 1x12 EV12L(2 if I want to drag the other little cab about) AND I use the RCF. Best of both worlds for me. Anyway, I turn everything on and it sounds great as usual, I dork around for a bit, add some more DB to a couple GEQs, mess with a different pedal for wah-the usual pre-practice stuff. THe rest of the dudes arrive and we start playing. I'm not loud enough. Odd-I havent changed anything since the last time. So I crank up the GT and the RCF a bit more, turn up the 1 and 2 outs..okay, loud enough. Played for a few tunes, really enjoying the tones...and then I noticed. I never turned on the matrix. Tht is why I wasnt as loud as the last practice. We pay loud. Really loud. Too loud probably. But the RCF sitting in top of a 1x12 more than covered it-and it sounded great. End of story.

THe K's are good stuff, not crapping on anyones parade. It is very option rich platform as well. Currently, the other guitar player is using it as a vocal monitor on one side, and a piezo monitor on the other. Both sides then continue on to the board. Can't do that with the RCF ;)

Ks work, price is right and a very flexible platform. Is the RCF the next level to me? Yep, just like the axe is the next level up from the kemper to me. Yes-I have both of those as well and not dissing any of this hardware-if I didnt like it I would have sold it.
 
I have QSC K's. K12 and K8. I think they sound good. I haven't heard RCF, and from what I've read, they seem to be the next level, both in terms of sound quality and price. So it's possible that I like the K's because I haven't heard anything better.

But, I've also read entire threads dedicated to how awesome EV ZXA-1 is. And how it's amazing that something so small can sound so good and so loud. When I heard it at the store, I didn't like it at all, I didn't even need to compare it to anything. I just didn't like it.

So really, use your own ears. Everyone have different tastes.

Chances are, the audience won't be able to tell the difference at all. So this is all for you.
 
I have a set of k10's and 12's and I really like mine. Just takes a little tweaking like the many other things I've tried with my Axe. I am interested in the RCF's but I'm waiting to hear a few unbiased reviews of matrix vs atomic clr's vs rcf's.
 
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