End of the rainbow or am I just short-sighted?

Paperjace

Paperjace

Experienced
I've had my Axe FX for a couple years now and I absolutely love it. Every time I turn it on and play, I am still completely smitten with the tonal possibilities and top-notch sound quality. I truly honestly feel that if I take care of this unit for as long as I can, I will never need another amplifier or modeler for the rest of my life. I just can't imagine anything being better in the future. Yes, we'll get firmware updates to tweak the unit but looking at the bigger picture, I can't imagine owning another modeler that can even come close. I've always been partial to digital modelers (Boss GT-8 for soooo many years and some crappy Digitech multifx board before that), but the Axe FX is just in a completely different league compared to those.

So...

My question goes out to the guitarists and gear enthusiasts from the 80s and 90s that own(ed) a whole bunch of rack gear. Did you have the same feeling with a piece of gear or setup that made you feel "this is all I need. I've found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!", but then something else comes along that makes it obsolete? I just can't see myself owning something in the next 10 years or more that could even match the Axe FX. Is this really it for guitar technology or is this just a phase, you think? I am 110% ok with just using the Axe FX for the rest of my days. It's just that perfect in my opinion. I can't imagine a way it could be better.
 
The question in my mind will be 'what else will guitarists demand'. Assuming we're approaching the knee of the model to hardware correlation curve, what will we want next? I supposed there's always more effects and IO, but on the amp modelling front, it would seem to me that the next step would be types that either don't exist or can't be replicated with actual hardware...but then we wouldn't be modeling anymore, we'd be creating.

Just my worthless 2 cents...
RR
 
There's definitely diminishing returns in the amp modeling improvements as I haven't been able to hear a difference for a while now - the extra value is now in the new drives (Hi Timothy), new amps, etc.
 
I think one of the next steps in Fas (r)evolution will be to make these algorhythms work at higher sample rates in the next hardware platforms. More and more hi-res music is coming out these days and at some point in the near future 96khz processing will be considered a standard and a must. Probably it already is a must in professional environments.
 
The modeling can still get more accurate. The way circuits are emulated with the FAS software, requires massive processing power, so some parts are simplified. If I understand correctly that is. So with faster processing and more of it, more accurate simulations can be achieved. In addition, there may be aspects of component modeling of the circuit that has not been realized, meaning the effect of a component on a signal in a given circuit that is unkown at present. Then of course just more raw DSP power for larger presets, and faster switching. Imagine a preset with twenty different scenes, all with different amps and cabs. That's not even adressing improvments to the interface and connectivity. There is plently of room for improvment, we just need the FAS engineers to see the path.
 
Paperjace said:
I've had my Axe FX for a couple years now and I absolutely love it. Every time I turn it on and play, I am still completely smitten with the tonal possibilities and top-notch sound quality. I truly honestly feel that if I take care of this unit for as long as I can, I will never need another amplifier or modeler for the rest of my life. I just can't imagine anything being better in the future. Yes, we'll get firmware updates to tweak the unit but looking at the bigger picture, I can't imagine owning another modeler that can even come close. I've always been partial to digital modelers (Boss GT-8 for soooo many years and some crappy Digitech multifx board before that), but the Axe FX is just in a completely different league compared to those.

So...

My question goes out to the guitarists and gear enthusiasts from the 80s and 90s that own(ed) a whole bunch of rack gear. Did you have the same feeling with a piece of gear or setup that made you feel "this is all I need. I've found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!", but then something else comes along that makes it obsolete? I just can't see myself owning something in the next 10 years or more that could even match the Axe FX. Is this really it for guitar technology or is this just a phase, you think? I am 110% ok with just using the Axe FX for the rest of my days. It's just that perfect in my opinion. I can't imagine a way it could be better.
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Triple Sized Speaker Ir's (33KB), Quadruple Processing Power w/ Double Each Type Of Block, Guitar Input Processing, FR Tone Set (reads the frequency response of your FR and adjusts Global EQ accordingly)...
 
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It's everywhere -
We used to have racks and racks (plural plural haha) of gear for the PAs and in the Studio - Now my little studio setup has one rack with some pres & comresssors, but everything else is digital!... All you need now is a good Desk, PC,, Studio Monitors, & exxy microphones. Of course in some ways I've replaced the rack expenditure with plugins etc but don't want to think about that!

Thanks
Pauly
 
This has been lamented time and time again.

I realize that I've plumbed roughly 27% of the box with amps, FX, drives, etc, etc, etc. I have a huge rack of things I have not even spent enough time with to appreciate.

We have an embarrassment of riches. Spend a few nights using amps you would NEVER consider normally, FX that you don't look at. The question of 'is it all over' will be solved pretty quickly...

It's only begun.

R
 
"We heard you like Fractal Audio Systems so we put an FX8 in the loop of an AX8 into the loop of an XL+ so you can Fractal while you Fractal, etc, etc."
 
Interesting question.
I think Cliff know where are the shortcut in his modeling algorithm.
Maybe because the actual processing power... maybe because the latency... or something in the "impredictible zone" or in the "feel zone" or in the "sweet spot zone" of an amp... he knows where the modeling formula could be better than now.
The same about the cab IR technology and about the fx modeling.
I don't think that it's only all about higher resolution: for the music i know (i'm a 53yo old tart) talking about more resolution it's something like talking about to see the original Blade Runner in 4K! WTF one want to see more in Blade Runner???
So i think that the roadmap of the modeling algorithm isn't arrived to the finish right now!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other side is THA BOX where the GPS (Gear Production Syndrome) meets our GAS. No limits there!
Can you feel the warm in your pockets if i tell you about a box called "AxeGW" (Axe Guitar Workstation) or maybe "AxeGW Mk IV XXL++ Evo WiFi/4G Plus Turbo Intercooler 16V e.i."?
Wants some specs?
- Quad processors
- room for 1000 patches and 2000 cab IR
- 12" foldable touchscreen
- onboard Editor and Fw d/l
- 2Tb SSD
- Web Browser
- WiFi and 4G
- Full USB and Lightning connections
- 8 In/8Out XLR /unbalanced and digital/optical. 4 ins are mic enabled with phantom power switch and 2 ins are instruments Hi-z selectable
- onboard HD recording/editing/mixing (8 tracks) with VSTi/VST plugin support
- automatic switching guitar input sensitivity

AAAAANNNNDDD... THE LONG AWAITED "GUITAR INPUT MODELING UNIT" with tons of pickups models and acoustic sim!

Street price: 4500$ (here you can ear a cash/ring sound!) :p
 
GuttaLaser said:
Interesting question.
I think Cliff know where are the shortcut in his modeling algorithm.
Maybe because the actual processing power... maybe because the latency... or something in the "impredictible zone" or in the "feel zone" or in the "sweet spot zone" of an amp... he knows where the modeling formula could be better than now.
The same about the cab IR technology and about the fx modeling.
I don't think that it's only all about higher resolution: for the music i know (i'm a 53yo old tart) talking about more resolution it's something like talking about to see the original Blade Runner in 4K! WTF one want to see more in Blade Runner???
So i think that the roadmap of the modeling algorithm isn't arrived to the finish right now!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other side is THA BOX where the GPS (Gear Production Syndrome) meets our GAS. No limits there!
Can you feel the warm in your pockets if i tell you about a box called "AxeGW" (Axe Guitar Workstation) or maybe "AxeGW Mk IV XXL++ Evo WiFi/4G Plus Turbo Intercooler 16V e.i."?
Wants some specs?
- Quad processors
- room for 1000 patches and 2000 cab IR
- 12" foldable touchscreen
- onboard Editor and Fw d/l
- 2Tb SSD
- Web Browser
- WiFi and 4G
- Full USB and Lightning connections
- 8 In/8Out XLR /unbalanced and digital/optical. 4 ins are mic enabled with phantom power switch and 2 ins are instruments Hi-z selectable
- onboard HD recording/editing/mixing (8 tracks) with VSTi/VST plugin support
- automatic switching guitar input sensitivity

AAAAANNNNDDD... THE LONG AWAITED "GUITAR INPUT MODELING UNIT" with tons of pickups models and acoustic sim!

Street price: 4500$ (here you can ear a cash/ring sound!) :p
Click to expand...
When you have guys moaning that Helix has a LA2A yet they think a compressor is for leveling signals than none of anyone's forecasts matter since modelling is already evolved past the average user.
 
Tonewicker said:
if melodyne comes in play for the guitar world we will be doomed
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Since you either making a flip comment it haven't got a clue what your talking about.
It already is.
But I ant talking about its auto tune past but rather that it lets you modify the harmonic content of the audio.

Think about it what is the real difference between amps... The harmonic series produced. Otherwise you could use EQ match all day long.
 
I started playing guitar, 1999-2000
So... I can't really speak of the evolution of gear in the 80s-90s to today.
BUT what comes to mind is that the alternative to technology is always there and always sought after...

When the rack stuff and midi stuff was growing in the 80's- Real good Tube amps were always still there...
in the 90s with the Zoom processors and whatever else- there were still good tube amps to go to...

And I think today- they're always still there- and luckily the Axe FX is so great it can be used in any way and plays well with real tube amps...

So- you can get an Axe Fx or anything today- and they're great... BUT the alternative- a good tube amp is still there- so it's not like we've always had to throw everything away before it- and some people will always be amp people and some people will pickup anything new that comes along just to try- I love THE EDGE and BILLY GIBBONS enthusiasm to try new gear.


AND- to respond to you being happy with the Axe Fx...

I remember getting an Ultra and it having a halo around it. Basically I was just so happy to own one and have it I didn't care what it sounded like... After a few weeks- I have to be honest-the halo wore off- it was GOOD, and certainly better than what came before it -but not everything people made it out to be- to me, at least.

I know I needed to put a lot of work into programing it- and then I thought- "F*** if I'm going to put all this work into it, I might as well sell this thing and get the new one'- LUCKILY selling my Ground Control with the Ultra was enough to pay for a new Axe Fx II

I pulled in the II, and within 2 min knew it was lightyears ahead of the ultra.
I have an XL+ now... I'm so happy with it and have so much faith in it- I don't even think I'd drop it for the new one if one comes out any time soon- I know I haven't scratched the surface of what it can do- and probably never will.
 
As for the tonal side of things, I'm quite satisfied with abilities the Axe's provide. I have far more flexibility now than I had with the refrigerator sized monster racks of the past. What I really want now is the completely wireless studio and guitar rigs. Absolutely sick to F'n death of cables for audio transmission. WiFi, Bluetooth....I don't care. I can see power cabling persisting for the foreseeable future but, for Buddha's sake, someone please free us from the shackles of audio cabling bondage. A wireless AxeFX (or an adapter of some sort) to interface with my wireless mixer, which in turn interfaces seamlessly with my wireless DAW......surely the tech exists to accomplish this.
 
Perhaps FAS gear will become dated, but I try to look on the bright side. By the time that happens, I won't need a slide. I'll just drag my bony fingers across the strings. I'll likely get so excited I'll load my Depends. My own personal poo-nami.
 
Jeries said:
I started playing guitar, 1999-2000
So... I can't really speak of the evolution of gear in the 80s-90s to today.
BUT what comes to mind is that the alternative to technology is always there and always sought after...

When the rack stuff and midi stuff was growing in the 80's- Real good Tube amps were always still there...
in the 90s with the Zoom processors and whatever else- there were still good tube amps to go to...

And I think today- they're always still there- and luckily the Axe FX is so great it can be used in any way and plays well with real tube amps...

So- you can get an Axe Fx or anything today- and they're great... BUT the alternative- a good tube amp is still there- so it's not like we've always had to throw everything away before it- and some people will always be amp people and some people will pickup anything new that comes along just to try- I love THE EDGE and BILLY GIBBONS enthusiasm to try new gear.


AND- to respond to you being happy with the Axe Fx...

I remember getting an Ultra and it having a halo around it. Basically I was just so happy to own one and have it I didn't care what it sounded like... After a few weeks- I have to be honest-the halo wore off- it was GOOD, and certainly better than what came before it -but not everything people made it out to be- to me, at least.

I know I needed to put a lot of work into programing it- and then I thought- "F*** if I'm going to put all this work into it, I might as well sell this thing and get the new one'- LUCKILY selling my Ground Control with the Ultra was enough to pay for a new Axe Fx II

I pulled in the II, and within 2 min knew it was lightyears ahead of the ultra.
I have an XL+ now... I'm so happy with it and have so much faith in it- I don't even think I'd drop it for the new one if one comes out any time soon- I know I haven't scratched the surface of what it can do- and probably never will.
Click to expand...
Stuff goes always in cycles. I started playing inboards in the late 70s...it was all Marshalls with OD boxes, then Marshalls with attenuators and stomps, then EMGS with stomps, then modded Marshalls. Then the rise of the first boutique guys started.
Then it was all pre and power amp stuff.
There was no midi used other than patch changes on SDD3000s and such.
Late 80s you got the programmable press, the MP1, JMP, Triaxis etc...
up until then the Lab amp, Sunn Beta some Acoustic stuff were the only solid state stuff any one used. The Pearce stuff was pretty cool. And of course there was the Rickman.
But in a nutshell the cycle was heads....racks....racks with heads...pedals with heads....and then modelling came.
 
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