EMG 81 Distorts/clips on its own + low output.

Perdikament said:
Get a new tech, he hasn't got a clue.
I still think it's a wiring problem. What you described originally I had happen when I had mistakenly plugged into the wrong spot on the volume pot & I also had one of the blue jumpers (which are for tone pot send & returns if I remember correctly) in the wrong spot.
I had barely audible distorted signal. However when I first would plug in, it'd be loud for a second then fizzle out to the clipped barely audible state. The volume pot on the guitar made no difference if I recall correctly, it'd do the same thing regardless of where the vol was at. Then I tried pulling the guitar cable 1/2 way out and if I got it just right it'd be loud. Which led me to believe that it had to be that I most likely missed something in the wiring. Which I did, I had, I think the output jack one slot up too high. And missed one of the jumpers for the tone pots.
The directions can be a bit misleading between the ones online and the ones in with the pickups, I forget which one had the exact one that was right for my set up.
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If that's the case my guitar might have come with this problem stock. I have dropped it off (LTD EC-401B) at this tech before but I'm not sure if he ever opened up wiring cavity. One thing that was strange when I got the guitar new was that the pickups had "sunk" into the body, and I had it fixed by this same tech. He put rubber foam underneath the pickups, I think he said that the screws couldn't raise the pickups enough or something. That was the first time I had it in his shop. Maybe something happened to the pickups/wiring that time? I don't know what to think really...

But I'll try to pay this info forward to him to see if he changes his mind on what the problem is!
 
Ok, maybe I was a little harsh to judge, as I don't know the tech. I do know that it is definitely not an impedance issue though, which leads me to question his knowledge. EMG's absolutely will work with the axe fx.

It could be a bad part or pickup. The pickups I just installed did not use the rubber on the screws as the screw holes on the pickups were extremely tight and would never slip. They did not come with the rubber either fwiw.
 
EMG 81 RMS: 1.0V (1000mV) Peak: 3.0V (3000mV)
EMG 60 RMS: 1.25V (1250mV) Peak 1.75V (1750mV)

There are some specs on your pickup outputs. Don't know if they'll help or not. You don't mention the preset construction you are using in your Axe. Almost sounds like preset settings vs guitar problems. Especially with the sound clamping down. Sounds like a gate or something.
 
Perdikament said:
Ok, maybe I was a little harsh to judge, as I don't know the tech. I do know that it is definitely not an impedance issue though, which leads me to question his knowledge. EMG's absolutely will work with the axe fx.

It could be a bad part or pickup. The pickups I just installed did not use the rubber on the screws as the screw holes on the pickups were extremely tight and would never slip. They did not come with the rubber either fwiw.
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He kinda said though that he isn't all that familiar with actives.
 
Anyway, I've tested the pickups now with an old Randall solid state head with high volume (low volume channel and high master volume = really clean representation of the signal, flat/noon EQ aswell) and earplugs to mask the acoustic attack, clipping is still there, even as I turn the volume way down on the guitar. So yeah, there is the definite answer to this. Bad wiring and/or pickups. Not an Axe issue at all. If it was an Axe/impedance issue then passive high output pickups like the Seymour Duncan Distortion would have the same problems, right? Because the signal is still high with those and that's what my tech says is the problem.

I'm thinking about maybe buying a new set of EMG 81's/60's, solderless. They look fairly easy to install. Anyone have any good/bad experiences with these?
 
Pelikanen said:
Anyway, I've tested the pickups now with an old Randall solid state head with high volume (low volume channel and high master volume = really clean representation of the signal, flat/noon EQ aswell) and earplugs to mask the acoustic attack, clipping is still there, even as I turn the volume way down on the guitar. So yeah, there is the definite answer to this. Bad wiring and/or pickups. Not an Axe issue at all. If it was an Axe/impedance issue then passive high output pickups like the Seymour Duncan Distortion would have the same problems, right? Because the signal is still high with those and that's what my tech says is the problem.

I'm thinking about maybe buying a new set of EMG 81's/60's, solderless. They look fairly easy to install. Anyone have any good/bad experiences with these?
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Get the X versions, they are solder-less & are more dynamic, they use a different updated preamp. 9v is all you need, no 18v mod necessary. Maybe look into the 89x as well as opposed to the 81x, you can split it, single/hum with a push/pull vol pot. The 89x is a tad hotter than the 81x & has a little more lows.
 
Seems cool, I'm gonna have to read up on those! I'll keep the 89 in mind, although, because I like to so many recordings made with the 81 it just feels like a safe bet ;) But you shouldn't be afraid to try out new things :D
 
Heya! Did you get any closure on the topic? The problem you describe matches mine pretty well, i have emg 81 in bridge and I go line in in scarlett 2i2 without that going into red and wihout any clipping in daw. (the instrument in on scarlett goes red VERY easy on 0 gain)

The problem: Got audible clipping in DI signal and visualy in waveform as you can see here: (cant post links I see, Its very similar to the one JS uses in his vid "Nail The Mix - Clipping DI guitars" on youtube)


If I dial in a nice clean tone this is just irritating but on high gain it works alright.

Pickup height in this clip is about 4 mil I think, I have tried many heights and only if I go lower than the plastic its still kinda audible when i really dig into strings, If i go that low i lose so much signal and tone sustain etc.

"Solutions" I have tried:
1. Changing the pickup to another emg 81 (second hand like the original one) - no difference at all.
2. Took it to tech - they changed vol pot and checked wiring - no difference at all (btw if i have vol pot very low the clpping is still audible like on your guitar).
3. Changing battery, tried out different strings, cables - nothing seems to help.
4. Changing pickup height as mentioned before.

Did you find any solution to this? Hope you will find time to reply, cheers!

Btw the first time I started to think about this was also on Ola Englunds video on something and I noticed he had a lot different waveforms and superior clarity on the DI-s.

EDIT: When I had the Axe-Fx II the DI was distorted too, so for you its definitely not Axe problem.
 
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FWIW: I have only one guitar these days with active EMG's in it and it's the only guitar I can't get to sound good with my Axe FX. It doesn't distort but it just sounds muddy, not on any of my amps, just on the Axe. The connections are good, the battery is fresh, the pickups are as low as I can get them and I still have to tweak the snot out of my AF2 to get a usable tone. I know my experience is very different than most but this guitar just doesn't jive with my Axe. It's unfortunate as its the only guitar I have available to use in the particular tuning I have it in.
 
Thanks for the reply!
Yes, I understand that but the problem is they are distorting and the closer they are the more they distort (can suck much with clean patches) and the waveform of my DI is clipped (just because of pickups not anywhere else in the signalchain).As I said I even replaced the pickup for another 81 and its doing the same.. altough they should not? At least I have seen some DI-s that are proper with 81-s (like Ola Englunds). This is just driving me nuts xD
I would really like to know if the OP got the problem solved some other way than purchasing new pickups / guitar.
 
New batteries, adjust Axe input level. The EMG 81 works fine with the Axe, so unless you have a level mismatch your guitar's wiring is hosed or there is some other hardware fault wrt to the pickup, I would guess.
 
Thanks for the reply!
Yeah 81 -s worked really well with AXE for me as well and I really loved the unit.
As I described earlyer I plug Straight to in to an interface now and the problem is really in the guitar side.

The first thing you mentioned (the batteries) seems to be correct actually! I do have pretty fresh one inside but its cheap. Why I think it must be the problem is cause I changed the battery to a VERY old one and the distortion (of the same kind) got hella louder... and waveform is distorted on less output. This matches what is said on EMG homepage - if battery gets older the headroom will decrease and signal will distort. Even if I dont dig in to strings and just do some soloing it will distort so Ill get better battery tomorrow and if that wont help check the wiring.

Problem solved for me,
Cheers for the help! (Y)
 
As_I_Lay_An_Egg said:
Heya! Did you get any closure on the topic? The problem you describe matches mine pretty well, i have emg 81 in bridge and I go line in in scarlett 2i2 without that going into red and wihout any clipping in daw. (the instrument in on scarlett goes red VERY easy on 0 gain)

The problem: Got audible clipping in DI signal and visualy in waveform as you can see here: (cant post links I see, Its very similar to the one JS uses in his vid "Nail The Mix - Clipping DI guitars" on youtube)


If I dial in a nice clean tone this is just irritating but on high gain it works alright.

Pickup height in this clip is about 4 mil I think, I have tried many heights and only if I go lower than the plastic its still kinda audible when i really dig into strings, If i go that low i lose so much signal and tone sustain etc.

"Solutions" I have tried:
1. Changing the pickup to another emg 81 (second hand like the original one) - no difference at all.
2. Took it to tech - they changed vol pot and checked wiring - no difference at all (btw if i have vol pot very low the clpping is still audible like on your guitar).
3. Changing battery, tried out different strings, cables - nothing seems to help.
4. Changing pickup height as mentioned before.

Did you find any solution to this? Hope you will find time to reply, cheers!

Btw the first time I started to think about this was also on Ola Englunds video on something and I noticed he had a lot different waveforms and superior clarity on the DI-s.

EDIT: When I had the Axe-Fx II the DI was distorted too, so for you its definitely not Axe problem.
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Based on what EMG tech support told me I have bad wiring. Both pickups distort. Do you have a "Pad" switch on your Scarlett 2i2? Leave it on if you do. (this is what my tech thought was the problem, that the Axe didn't have it, but the Axe does have it though and what it does is that it lowers the output of the signal, or it changes the impedance, making it more guitar/bass "friendly").
But the problem is still there when listening through my amp so it's definitely not the Axe. My tech was probably not picking the strings hard enough to hear clipping, he always just strums chords very softly haha, so he missed it.

I find that it just makes the guitar sound weak. No punch, no real power. And the attack gets muddier.

Since I've been a little lazy the past few months and have focused more on writing music I haven't tried solving it. But yes, even with low volume on the guitar clipping is there, so it's clearly the electronics, or?? (This is just crazy haha)

Yeah Olas EMG DI sounds crystal clear. He also had a DI lying around from a 7-string with passives and it was super loud. Maybe it didn't have that "pad" thing going on?

But one thing to remember, every guitar I've had actives in have clipped playing through the Axe, I just didn't notice it until recently. But all those guitars have gone through this tech aswell, so, maybe that's where things went wrong?

This problem just makes me dizzy :confused:;)
 
As_I_Lay_An_Egg said:
Thanks for the reply!
Yeah 81 -s worked really well with AXE for me as well and I really loved the unit.
As I described earlyer I plug Straight to in to an interface now and the problem is really in the guitar side.

The first thing you mentioned (the batteries) seems to be correct actually! I do have pretty fresh one inside but its cheap. Why I think it must be the problem is cause I changed the battery to a VERY old one and the distortion (of the same kind) got hella louder... and waveform is distorted on less output. This matches what is said on EMG homepage - if battery gets older the headroom will decrease and signal will distort. Even if I dont dig in to strings and just do some soloing it will distort so Ill get better battery tomorrow and if that wont help check the wiring.

Problem solved for me,
Cheers for the help! (Y)
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Wait a minute - the battery solved it? :Do_O

So do you have to use the most expensive batteries that are new bought or something? Since I have cheaper batteries and they have been sitting in cabins and cases and gone through hot and cold weather and all kinds of stuff.

Did it makes your guitar sound like Olas? :)
 
Pelikanen said:
every guitar I've had actives in have clipped playing through the Axe
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Axe FX should handle active pickups easily. If I'm not mistaken, the front input takes +16 dBu and the rear input can take up to +20 dBu. That's about 14 and 22 volts RMS, and much higher point to point amplitude, no active pickup with a 9 volt battery can reach that even theoretically, they should peak around +10 dBu.

The "secret sauce" thingie on the front input, whatever it is, decreases headroom and most probably will add some distortion due to soft clipping of some sort, judging by the descriptions I've seen, but that may be a problem for passive pickups, not actives.

Active pickups compress and clip internally, and have lower peak output than hot passive humbuckers, although that also depends on the guitar - if you have a Jackson you'll have a more powerful signal, other things being equal, since it has bridge pickup located closer to the neck, thus higher output and darker tone. But for active pickups this means more internal clipping rather than higher output.
 
EMG 81/85
1.25V rms
1.75V peak

I have an 89x which is essentially an 85 with the coil tap & I can assure you it comes nowhere near clipping the front input in humbucker mode.
 
I saw this thread a few days ago and tested my EMGs in both my guitars. They were both clipping like crazy!

THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED HOWEVER. All you have to do is lower the pickup height until there is no more clipping. It's really as simple as that. Hook your guitar back up to the interface. Record your DI as a visual reference. Now lower your pickups by a few millimeters. Record DI again and check for clipping. If it's still clipping, lower it further. If the clipping is gone, that will be your new pickup height position.

Ever since I lowered my pickups to the proper height, the dynamics and overall tone of the EMG set has increased dramatically. I've now got a much more natural tone. It sounds much fuller, less compressed and feels much tighter and more touch sensitive. The transient attack has increased dramatically.

It's really this simple guys. If EMG is telling you to put them as close as possible to the strings, they aren't bothering to do their research. There should be NO CLIPPING EVER in any digital signal path. It is not a normal part of pickup design, nor should it be considered acceptable. If you have EMG or any active pickups in your guitar, check your DI signal and adjust your pickups accordingly. Heck, if you see you have no clipping, raise your pickups a bit until you start to see them clipping and then back them off just enough so that it goes away.
 
If you read the manual for your EMG 81 pickup it says....

"Adjust the pickup level to the strings, and at a distance that works for you, experiment."

Not "adjust them as close to the strings as possible." So I'm not sure where this idea comes from.
 
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