Easy (hopefully) MIDI question (Ground Control + Axe-Fx)

B

brain21

Inspired
OK, so I have an old (original) Ground Control (not pro). I have the last firmware, and have the memory upgrade that should let me access up to 360 presets. I have it set to "Bank4" mode. This gives me a top row of IA switches, and 4 preset switches per bank. Can't remember how many banks though.

Anyway, it seems that Bank A (on the Axe) is presets as is bank B. The user stuff is in bank C, which is where I did all of my patch creation.

I can't seem to switch to these (bank C) presets! The stupid GC only allows me to direct access presets up to 2 digits! IOW, up to 99, and only in Bank1 of the AxeFx. I'm sure this is not the case and I'm setting this up incorrectly.

I tried MIDI mapping in the Axe-Fx, but that only allows mapping up to preset 254. That doesn't help me either as my presets are ABOVE bank B.

I read that I can switch to Bank C by setting CC#0 to send out message #2? Does that mean I have to somehow reprogram that step into every program change? Or do I have to use up one of my IA switches to switch to Bank 3 everytime I turn the Axe on? Is there a way (in the Axe) to have the change messages automatically default to Bank C?

For example I want:
(on the ground control) Bank 01, button 1 to switch to preset #281 (on the Axe).
(on the ground control) Bank 01, button 2 to switch to preset #283 (on the Axe).
(on the ground control) Bank 01, button 3 to switch to preset #287 (on the Axe).

(on the ground control) Bank 02, button 1 to switch to preset #284 (on the Axe).
(on the ground control) Bank 02, button 2 to switch to preset #285 (on the Axe).
(on the ground control) Bank 02, button 3 to switch to preset #287 (on the Axe).
(on the ground control) Bank 02, button 4 to switch to preset #282 (on the Axe).

Thanks for any help! The GC manual doesn't reflect the memory upgrade stuff, so I can't seem to find the help there, and the I looked through the Axe manual and Wiki, and they address MIDI mapping, etc. but not switching to Bank C presets, or how exactly to GET to bank C (via MIDI) before making the program change number.

Thanks!

Brain21
 
Anyone? Bueller?

I got the following response from Voodoo Labs:

The Ground Control can send any program change from 1-128 (0-127), but there is no way to make it send the bank change message the Axe-Fx responds to. You should be able to either set a higher numbered Axe-Fx preset to be recalled by a program change between 1-128, or there is likely a way to just tell the Axe-Fx to recall presets from Bank C. Try contacting Fractal to see how to recall a preset in the higher numbered banks without first sending the bank change command.

If you have any insights, I'd appreciate them!

Brain21
 
I have the same problem with my MidiMate. Unfortunately some controllers just can't access presets over 128 and have no bank change ability.
 
OmegaZero said:
I have the same problem with my MidiMate. Unfortunately some controllers just can't access presets over 128 and have no bank change ability.
Click to expand...

Use MIDI Mapping. See what patches the Ground Control DOES switch to when you step on it to determine what Midi patch locations it's calling.

On your Axe, go to the I/O screen and page to the MIDI tab. Set Map From to the number of a patch on the GC, and the Map To to the number of the patch you want on the Axe.

So, let's say you want bank 1, preset 1 on the GC to point to patch 305 on the Axe. Assuming that slot is sending Midi #1, you'd set the Map From to 1 and the Map To to 305. Now, when you're in bank 1 on the Ground Control and you stomp the first pedal, patch 305 will appear on the Axe.

The other option is to use the Editor to load Bank A into Bank B of the Axe, and Bank B into bank C, leaving you Bank A on the Axe (0-128) for your own patches. But as you'll see if you read the posts in the Editor forum, you'll need to very carefully learn to use the editor to do this.

I'd just use the Midi mapping.
 
OK, so this will work? Like I said it looked like in the AxeFx it only allowed MIDI mapping to patch 254. I'll try again. Hopefully I was wrong or reading something incorrectly on the AxeFx!

Thanks,

Brain21
 
brain21 said:
OK, so this will work? Like I said it looked like in the AxeFx it only allowed MIDI mapping to patch 254. I'll try again. Hopefully I was wrong or reading something incorrectly on the AxeFx!
Click to expand...

No, you read this correctly. It will only go to 254. I missed that in your original post.

If you've done your work in Bank C, I would switch Bank C to Bank A or Bank B. Using Axe-Edit, Save your Bank C to your computer, load Bank B to bank C, Bank A to Bank B, and then load your saved bank to A. Then you wouldn't even need to deal with the mapping.
 
Ugh, what a PITA! Not sure why either the Axe can't Midi map higher than 254 (an octet I guess, #00 - #ff), or by default banks are not switched around like that. Why have something like 384 addressable/programmable memory slots, and many footpedals can't access them. And please don't anyone say "its a pro-level unit, and you should have a pro-level pedal" - thats a straw man argument.

OK, so then if I switch every bank around as you suggest, will my created presets in Bank 1 get overwritten by the defaults when I upgrade to a new firmware? Will I have to backup, move banks around, and restore ever time I upgrade my Firmware??? If so... well surely theres got to be an easier way. I just can't afford to buy a GCPro or anything like that right now, and I can't seem to raise music money by selling gear cause I can't get anyone to buy my (other) gear. Grrrr.
 
brain21 said:
Ugh, what a PITA! Not sure why either the Axe can't Midi map higher than 254 (an octet I guess, #00 - #ff), or by default banks are not switched around like that. Why have something like 384 addressable/programmable memory slots, and many footpedals can't access them. And please don't anyone say "its a pro-level unit, and you should have a pro-level pedal" - thats a straw man argument.
Click to expand...

Since the factory presets are always readily available for download, the general idea is you'd just overwrite Bank A with your own work. The Ultra ships with all three banks filled with factory presets, so there's no choice but to overwrite something.

The intent of the factory presets is to demonstrate the functionality of the unit. The chances that they'll be usable for you on your rig in the songs that you play with the people you play with is pretty slim. Some of them are so out there that the chances you'll have a use for them whatsoever is even lower.

But if you just have to have those factory presets with you, one way to deal with it without even having to deal with an editor is just to take a tour of the presets, and if you like one, hit the save button and save it to a slot in Bank C. Now you can overwrite Bank A at will.

brain21 said:
OK, so then if I switch every bank around as you suggest, will my created presets in Bank 1 get overwritten by the defaults when I upgrade to a new firmware? Will I have to backup, move banks around, and restore ever time I upgrade my Firmware???
Click to expand...

No. Updating firmware doesn't load the factory presets, which in fact can be it's own PITA because there is the potential that firmware updates create problems with the factory presets you have until you update those. Doesn't happen often, but it has happened.

brain21 said:
If so... well surely theres got to be an easier way. I just can't afford to buy a GCPro or anything like that right now, and I can't seem to raise music money by selling gear cause I can't get anyone to buy my (other) gear. Grrrr.
Click to expand...

You don't have to upgrade your pedal. Just let go of the idea that you're losing something irretrievably by overwriting Bank A. If you're building your own presets, why worry about keeping the factory presets?
 
raz said:
But if you just have to have those factory presets with you, one way to deal with it without even having to deal with an editor is just to take a tour of the presets, and if you like one, hit the save button and save it to a slot in Bank C. Now you can overwrite Bank A at will.
Click to expand...

Cool. This is exactly what I was thinking of doing, and then thought about the idea of the firmware overwriting my changes w/ the default factory pre-sets, which leads me to....

raz said:
No. Updating firmware doesn't load the factory presets,
Click to expand...

Excellent! That's my plan of action then! I'll use preset 300+ for general patch creation, copying anything I like from bank A over, etc. A "scratch pad" of presets if you will, and my "permanent" stuff will be loaded over to 1-128.

Cool. THanks for the help & info!

Brain21
 
brain21 said:
OK, so I have an old (original) Ground Control (not pro). ...I have it set to "Bank4" mode. This gives me a top row of IA switches, and 4 preset switches per bank...


Brain21
Click to expand...

How did you configure the top rows to function as IA's?

I fought with my old GC for a few days before putting it on ebay and getting an All Access. I wanted the extra switches and would have done that anyways but it would have been nice to have figured it out.
 
IIRC you have to have a specific firmware rev level? I'll have to pull up the manual. But you put the pedal in setup mode, and I think you go into the Utility menu within setup and from there you can select the preset mode. If anyone needs specific instructions, I can look it up and put them here. Basically it has 3 preset modes:

1) Direct - in this mode if you tap on buttons 123 it switches to patch 123. Tap 12 and after a sec it switches to patch 12, etc.
2) Bank - In this mode, you use the bank up & down buttons to select the bank. Each bank has 10 presets. Each button on the GC labeled 0-9 accesses a patch. You get (w/ the memory expansion) 36 banks of 10 patches. Without MIDI mapping, etc. to get to patch 057 you go up or down to bank 5, and then hit button #7. This is the default mode.
3) Bank4. In this mode you get something like 99 banks of 4 patches each, and you get IA switches. So if the layout is something like this on the pedal:

[5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [0]
[1] [2] [3] [4] [up] [down]

up and down move between the 99 banks. buttons 1,2,3, & 4 select the 4 patches within the bank. Buttons 5-0 are assigned IA switches. SO for example, I had 5 set to turn on/off (bypass) Drive1. 6 was set to bypass the wah, etc. I had 0 set to trigger the tuner.

The one problem with this is remembering whats in what bank. For example I tend to remember things by specific patch number with multi-effects units. I'll remember "patch 67 is the heavy flange patch" "Patch 26 is the crunchy Robben Ford Tone and 27 is the heavy Robben Ford tone" etc. No problem finding those w/o even thinking. But now I have to divvy that by 4 instead of 10.

To get to patch 26 I have to go to bank 7 (patches 25-28) and then hit button#2. I just have to have my 4s times tables memorized rather than my 10s :-D 26/4 = 6r2. Well if there is a remainder, then go up one bank. Therefore if 26/4 = 6r2, then the bank is bank7. Bank 7 = patches 25-27. The pedal to tap is #2 (the same as my remainder).

If I want to go to patch 111, I have to divide it by 4 = 27r3. Since there is a remainder, it is bank 28, not 27. Since the remainder was 3, then you tap patch #3. Viola!

So easy, its a PITA. Easy now, but in the middle of a song, forget it! :) Now I'm probably just going to have to memorize "Bank 4 = patches for a Hendrix sound" and "Bank 6 = Trainwreck patchs" and "Bank 29= Patches for <some song> by <some artist>" ... and maybe make a cheat sheet till I get it all memorized. :)

At least if I guess the wrong bank I'll know before I commit to a patch since once a bank is selected the GC will scroll through the presets.
 
Arrgghhh....

I updated mine to 2.5 and had it setup for Bank 4 mode and could never get it to transmit CC commands to the Axe on the top row of switches. I couldn't find anything in the manual and tried everything I could think of. I did find an old thread at HRI that had a limited explanation for a workaround by setting up the older GC's to think it was seeing GCX loopers and then assigning CC numbers to the switches but I couldn't get it to work.
 
Yeah, once I got it in Bank4 mode I went to the Global MIDI options and just assigned the bypasses there. The IA # matches the number on the pedal too (ex. I have drive =5 and now when I click on button #5 it bypasses the drive1 block). In the past with other MIDI devices I had mixed luck calibrating the CC inputs on the back to work correctly, but thats because I was using crappy CC pedals. :) I haven't really played with the AxeFx + GC + Expression pedals much since I got the Axe (I just plugged my EV-5 directly in to the Axe), but it did a little bit and it worked fine. Now I'm gonna get one of those Mission kits and turn an old broken wah into a Mission SP-1 and get expression plus a latching (acting as an extra external IA) as a bonus. :)
 
I was looking for a way to assign CC numbers to the top row and it looks like I didn't need to even bother with it, just use the number of the switch itself, hard to believe it would have been that easy.... :oops:

One thing that I really liked about the older GC is the expression pedal inputs. They have a great calibration feature that is really easy. They set up with the Axe easy also. I was able to use my 250k Ernie Ball volume pedal with no problems whatsoever and didn't have to run extra cables back to the Axe. Unfortunately the All Access wasn't so easy in that regard which was surprising since it is a much more advanced unit in other aspects.
 
I'm a longterm user of the original GC and I still like it better than the pro for a number of reasons. I especially like the fact that I can use ernie ball volume pedals as expression pedals with no fancy wiring needed, because I reverse-thread the pedals to make "toe-down" the neutral position. That way I don't screw things up by bumping a pedal. I use a boss/roland FS-6 wired to switches 1 and 2 on the axe, and use two cc's. That's enough for me in terms of switches and cc's so I set mine up for ten patches per bank. My lower (1-4) tend to be rhythm patches which morph to lead patches via cc and my uppers tend to be lead patches with various parameters controlled by switches and cc. I typically set up my switches to be tap tempo and harmonizer in/out. I use my cc's as wah and to morph patches by changing gain, fading in effects, etc. I think using the original GC you need to be flexible in terms of being efficient in the use of your buttons, but if you can survive with 4 patches per bank you do get the extra buttons. General observation:

All of the banks on the Axe are full of presets (at least mine were). So it didn't matter to me that I was going to lose some, I can always get them back or save them to another location higher up. So all of my user presets are in bank A, which keeps me out of trouble with the GC. If you use four patches per bank and do some mapping, I guess you can get up into bank B, but getting beyond that as you've learned is a flog.
 
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