Dry recordings?

Jason Scott said:
I suppose you can get an impression of how the amp models sound dry, but you can't discount the influence the guitar/pickups have on the sound. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a demo of an amp model at specific settings and with a given cab only to find it sounds different with my guitar.
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True enough.

I'm looking for the overall character of the amp.

I have three amp rigs that I use - Bogner XTC, ADA MP-1, and Marshall 3203. Of those three, only the Bogner is modelled in the AFX3, and only 2 of it's 3 channels. My goal is to replicate what I have, not to rebuild my sound from scratch. The Kemper accomplishes it from a sound and feel perspective, but there are some serious usability issues that I ran into for live use, so I don't intend to go back to it.

I am perfectly happy with the sound of my existing rigs, so my goal would be to get all three in one package, about 40 lbs lighter than the Bogner. If all three were modelled in the AFX3, it would be an easy call....but they aren't.
 
I bought each of my three Axe-FXs (Ultra, II, and III) without having seen one in person. Best gear investment ever.
 
FullThrottle64 said:
I would say the same about the Bogner XTC, but would not expect anyone to lay down that sort of $$$ without playing through one.
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There is some absolute truth in that statement. The Bogner XTC was the last real amp I sold before going full Fractal. When I sold the Bogner, I had already had the Axe3 for about a year and realized I hadn’t turned on the Bogner in about as much time. I had sold all my other amps as soon as I got the Axe3 (Victory V130, Mezzabarba MZO, EVH 5150... all gone).

But yeah... the XTC is easily my ”amp to own if you can only have one“.

... and then there’s the Bogner Synergy module, which integrates really nicely into the Axe3 with all its ins and outs.

... and I did purchase the Bogner without having actually played one, but a) I’ve spent all my life hearing it on albums, and b) Sweetwater has an excellent return policy, so if I didn’t like it, I could just send it back. :)
 
Shaw said:
There is some absolute truth in that statement. The Bogner XTC was the last real amp I sold before going full Fractal. [...]

But yeah... the XTC is easily my ”amp to own if you can only have one“.
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Yes. The first time I played through one, I bought it on the spot, and it's been my main rig ever since. That said, I would never have bought the XTC had it not been available for me to play in-store. I'm way too much of a tightwad for that. [When I showed up with the XTC without warning, I expected my wife to be really ticked off; she said that the amp was obviously so impressive and hard to find that it was my one "free shot" in our marriage.]

The other two amps I have kept for specific niche sounds that they are good at, but I would probably let them go if I could duplicate them with the AFX3. Kemper does great from a sound perspective, but their preset management doesn't work for me. I have yet to hear anything I like from Helix, and they don't have models for any of my go-to amps.

The AFX UI seems workable from what I see online, but not having the majority of my amps modelled and not being able to play one without dipping into the bank account....it's a hard sell.
 
Buy a used one. Sell for what you paid if you dont like it.

Keep in mind that just because an amp isnt modelled doesnt mean the tone isnt achievable. There are many creative workarounds made by members here.
 
My $0.00002 from another angle....

Leon Todd is a wonderful human, excellent player, great educator, and a huge contributor to the community.

However, he mostly works in a particular musical bag, so his patches and sound examples are mostly in that vein. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, and a great example of the Axe being harnessed in the service of a particular musical vision.

However, if that's not your sonic neighborhood, rest assured, there are lots of other tones and feels in there. That's the rub with not being able to try it without buying, you can only hear what someone else thought was post-worthy. But you actually can return it within the time window they say, so the risk is minimal.

Like you, I don't buy stuff just to check it out, knowing I'm going to return it. This is different. You're not talking advantage of Fractal. They know their business model, and are making a real offer, because they know it's a complex unit that takes a while to explore, and they know that most trials end in a purchase, because it's really good.

Mine did :)

If you can afford it (at least mostly), try it. Why not?
 
jlynnb1 said:
so what style do you play? you're preferred amp is the XTC?
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I play a lot of different styles. I do a lot of theater work, along with playing in a couple of "horn bands" and a fairly basic radio rock group. If you've ever done theater work, you'll know that a single song may include country, heavy rock, jazz, and flamenco, along with multiple instrument changes. Thus, the XTC is a pretty good choice to cover a wide range, and the rest of my gear is all MIDI rack stuff. One MIDI pedalboard, rack, head, done. For heavy rock or 80s-specific shows, I can use the MP-1 or Marshall; occasionally use the Marshall when sitting in with a basic rock "dad band" just because it's relatively lightweight and easy.

That being said, I've already gone "silent" using a Torpedo Live loadbox/IR, so that I can combine everything into a single feed and use a single monitor cabinet for all instruments and vocals. I understand the IR "rabbit hole" and have a pretty good set of baseline cabinets in the Torpedo to work from.

I really like the idea of having a single lightweight rack, though, and the AFX3 could theoretically replace the amp head, loadbox, rack FX, and mixer, which drops about 50 lbs and cuts the size in half. It would also combine two pedal units (MIDI and Bogner) into one FC12.

I tried the Kemper for one show series, and found that while I could get the sounds I wanted, the performance groups don't give me the flexibility I need for the way I think about building sounds. I think I can make the AFX3 system work for me with the way presets are structured....that's on me to figure out once I get some time with it.

BUT:

I don't want to have to rebuild my entire 15-year patch library 100% from scratch. The Kemper let me just profile what I was already using. A bit time-consuming, but very straightforward. If the AFX3 models match my existing amps and are fairly close, I could one by one build them by matching settings....but where the model doesn't exist it becomes very time-consuming trying to match sounds and dial in to what I already know works, then match levels, etc. Ugh.
 
if you already know what works though, start with the Bogner and equivalent marshall amps in the unit, make an IR of your cabinet and go from there. The IR is a large part of the sound, so making one of your actual cab should take care of half the work up front.

I don't doubt for a minute that the amp sounds you require are already in the box.
 
FullThrottle64 said:
I don't want to have to rebuild my entire 15-year patch library 100% from scratch. The Kemper let me just profile what I was already using. A bit time-consuming, but very straightforward. If the AFX3 models match my existing amps and are fairly close, I could one by one build them by matching settings....but where the model doesn't exist it becomes very time-consuming trying to match sounds and dial in to what I already know works, then match levels, etc. Ugh.
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That's where the Axe-Fx III's Tone Match feature comes in.
 
It’s common to look for your exact real amp types in a modeler. But with close to 300 amp models/channels in the Axe3 now, maybe you’re missing out on an even better match to the sound in your head. I use amp models that I’ve never even used the real thing and they are exactly what I want to hear. And I can try so many more when needed.

A mental trap that happens with a modeler is to try to do everything the way you used to do it, but that can be limiting and may not get the results you want. It’s the same as buying a new fender amp and trying to make it sound like a boogie because that’s what you used to play.

Of course starting with what you know is a good idea, but trying new things and being open to some changes is really where a modeler starts to come alive.
 
chris said:
It’s common to look for your exact real amp types in a modeler. But with close to 300 amp models/channels in the Axe3 now, maybe you’re missing out on an even better match to the sound in your head. I use amp models that I’ve never even used the real thing and they are exactly what I want to hear. And I can try so many more when needed.

A mental trap that happens with a modeler is to try to do everything the way you used to do it, but that can be limiting and may not get the results you want. It’s the same as buying a new fender amp and trying to make it sound like a boogie because that’s what you used to play.

Of course starting with what you know is a good idea, but trying new things and being open to some changes is really where a modeler starts to come alive.
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This is going to sound dismissive, but I really don't have time for that. I have good sounds now - a lot of them - that I can pull up very quickly in a rehearsal. What I really want is those same exact sounds, organized in a way that I can find them quickly, and in a package that weighs a lot less than my current rig. Having more variety is cool, but doesn't address what I'm trying to accomplish.

With the variety of gigs I play, it's not about creativity, it's about getting what I need FAST. A music director will not pause rehearsal for me while I take time to figure out how to get the right sound - I need to have the palette on tap when I walk in the door.

If it was just about getting good sounds, I would have stuck with the Kemper, as it does a great job. The trouble with the Kemper is twofold -1) the time it takes to dig through profiles to find good ones, and 2) the fact that the preset organization is effectively limited to groups of 5.
 
FullThrottle64 said:
but I really don't have time for that
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Fractal gear is deep gear. Eventide-level deep. If you don't have the time, and are particular about sounds, you may find the time investment required is not worth it. One of those personal decisions only you can make.

FullThrottle64 said:
it's about getting what I need FAST
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It's all relative to skill with the gear. Which all comes back to time. You'll need to practice dialing in sounds as much as you practice anything else in your life if you want to be able to do it well.

Edit: echoing @jlynnb1 -- it might not be the right piece of kit for you if you have ultra-stringent tone expectations and are tight on time to figure out how to produce those tones. That's cool.
 
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This isn't snarky at all, but perhaps it's just not for you. If you aren't able/willing to spend the time to recreate your tones, it's probably not going to work. I have zero doubt it can do everything you need it to, but it will require the work to make it happen.
 
FullThrottle64 said:
I have good sounds now - a lot of them - that I can pull up very quickly in a rehearsal. What I really want is those same exact sounds, organized in a way that I can find them quickly, and in a package that weighs .... .... .... ....
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Now I've got to hear these tones... got any recordings?
 
I should say, there are some good shortcuts you can buy from @austinbuddy -- he makes these preset packs that try to do solid amp+cab pairings for all the various amp models in the unit. Useful for getting typical tones from amps, quickly. I lean on his presets and golden ears all the time.
 
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