Drummers respond!

Arguing infers people being angry.
Heh. I'm amused you should say that.

When I was growing up (or maybe, with the people I was growing up around?), if something was a "debate" (sometimes we said "friendly debate") and you gave an "argument," then angry was the one thing that it wasn't. Precisely because it was all about argument (not, e.g., abuse or the mere automatic gainsaying of the other person) you could count on it being safely interesting, and often learning a thing or two.

On the other hand, if you were "quarreling," that meant it had gone beyond reasoned argument, and had gotten personal, often with a family member, producing anger or wounded pride or whatever.

But nowadays (or maybe, just with different groups of people, with different formative experiences?) it seems argument means quarrel, and I've no earthly idea what word we're supposed to use for arguing! :openmouth:

I guess the hot tip is just to be kind, and decorate online messages with lots of smileys so that nobody gets the wrong idea about your tone-of-voice. :grinning: <-- like that
 
Um. Can we not make this thread about you guys arguing?

I've noted the advice here. But I am considering a virtual lesson or 2 to start. I would prefer (as Chris mentioned) to get good habits early. From all the other instruments I play, I realize that getting started correctly is a big deal. You can find out what works for you as far as adjustments later...

R

I can give you a virtual lesson if needed. I've been teaching drums for many years to students of all skill levels. I've also been a student of Dave Elitch who's one of the best guys out there for proper technique in the modern age.

The main habits you want to get down early on are definitely stick grip and posture, followed by basic foot technique. Other than that, have fun!
 
Speaking of weird drum stances, I know a drummer who has angled his snare at an almost 90 degree towards him. Whatever works for you I guess, but I agree that its best to start while learning good behavior and modify from there as you progress into your own.
 
While we're on the subject of drums, as a guitar player I could watch this all day.

Gotta love the 80s hair!

 
i'm a professional drummer for over 20 years. i stand by my previous statements. sometimes it takes insight to recognize that even though others do something, it's not the best for starting out.

all i did was suggest something based on my experience, something others may not know. that's why we suggest based on experience and not just looking at what others do, and exactly why i suggested it. so many drummers set up factually "too low" to be comfortable and screw up their back and other muscles. low looks cool. low lets the audience see you. it's not worth it from my years of experience playing and talking to other drummers who are "stuck" with their low setup and can't change.

look at the angles of legs when they sit, and how low their arms fall to hit the drum compared to their knees. i know not every example shows this, but generally if your knees are flat or angled up as you sit, you're sitting too low. if your arms/hands/sticks go lower than your knees, the drum is too low.

people can disagree with my opinion of course, but basing it on only "these guys do it and they're famous" isn't a great response compared to actual insight from playing the instrument yourself. this is something i've studied extensively. read many articles of these famous drummers saying exactly that their back hurts due to the low setup but it is what it is and they can't change. i've seen video of some famous drummers playing another kit, saying how easy it is to play since it's higher, but they can't change their setup.

this is what i based my suggestion and opinion on.

there is a factual "too low." some just choose to endure it for various reasons. but key points - your knees shouldn't be higher than your thighs, and your sticks shouldn't hit below your thighs/knees for the snare. the low hi-hat example seems fine. anything can be excused if they feel comfortable with it. but when giving suggestions to someone starting out which is all i did, i wouldn't suggest starting too low. hopefully i don't need to be proven wrong some more for a suggestion based on experience.

if someone was just starting on guitar and their guitar hero uses an extra long strap so the guitar rests below their knees, would you suggest them to do the same? i would hope not. over time and with experience if they want it to be that low, they can do that eventually. but starting out, they'll screw up their muscles and fingers with it being so low, and they can hinder their progress on the instrument simply because they can't reach the frets correctly. "but kurt cobain played that low." cool. i wouldn't suggest it to a beginner though.
 
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Thanks Chris! I'm on it.

I'm really looking forward to this. Anxious to get started!

R
If your axe-fx didn't make you deaf, those acoustic drums certainly will -- what better during family lockdown! LOL
But serious, keep up the exploration my friend; it's the stuff of life.
 
Thanks Eric! I'm really ready to expand. I've tried to check your livestreams, but work is annoying these days. They know we're never far from our computers, so they pile on the work like it's a joke.

Ron
 
Thanks Eric! I'm really ready to expand. I've tried to check your livestreams, but work is annoying these days. They know we're never far from our computers, so they pile on the work like it's a joke.

Ron
you didn’t miss anything on live stream. Facebook threw audio video out of sync on first performance/test. I’ll do another live stream, but first I have an ACTUAL gig tomorrow - dragging my PA on a dolly/cart like a homeless guy around 3 sides of a high rise, blasting my show up to the locked down residents. Crazy times!
 
1st wave showed. Still need a slew of things. Was an adventure putting this together, but got 'er done.

But another thing added to the list: "How to tune drums"
 
1st wave showed. Still need a slew of things. Was an adventure putting this together, but got 'er done.

But another thing added to the list: "How to tune drums"
Dude, if you think us drummers are opinionated, smug and snarky when it comes to how high we sit, you don’t even want to ask about tuning. ;)
Enjoy!
 
1st wave showed. Still need a slew of things. Was an adventure putting this together, but got 'er done.

But another thing added to the list: "How to tune drums"
simple ;)

for toms, start with the bottom head. turn the drum upside down so the top head is muted on carpet or a towel.

slack all the drum lugs. most tuning is going to be in a crisscross pattern like a car tire.

now finger tighten all lugs as a starting point.

then with a drum key, slowly turn each lug, maybe 1/4 turn and strike the head in the center with your finger or stick, just lightly. you want to turn the lugs until the "raspy" untuned sound is out, like paper fluttering in the wind. you can keep lightly hitting it while you turn the lugs.

once you get a solid note, just detune one lug at at time all the way, then slowly back up until the clear pitch returns. then move on to the next lug. this process gets you the lowest pitch the head and drum will produce. it's a great starting point.

some will tell you to overtighten things and push down on the drum head to "crack" or release the glue seals of the head. i haven't found strong evidence to do this anymore, especially on evans heads. remo pinstripes might still need it, as i believe they still make them the old way. but yamaha stock heads should be newer remo and not need it, at least at this stage.

ok so you have the drum upside down and at the lowest pitch it will go. for now, just turn each lug 1/4 turn to pitch up slightly.

now repeat the process on the top of the drum head. get the lowest pitch possible, then tune up slightly.

lift the drum off the floor and hit it. it should sound ok or even good.

from here, the top head is usually tuned for "feel" - how quickly the stick bounces off, or if it sinks in a bit. this may require some time for you to develop your preferences, but this should be an ok starting point. the bottom head is usually tuned for "pitch" though of course both heads affect this. think of it like the Master Volume in the amp block affecting both power amp distortion and Level. you may have to balance the two heads to get the pitch and feel you want.

repeat for the other drums. you should get a natural descending pitch from high to low toms. you can adjust the lower head (or top) to balance pitch - just a small turn on any lug should do it.

i wouldn't put too much weight on making sure all lugs are exactly the same tension, at least at this stage. honestly, many of us do the process i described, then pull a lug all the way loose for that classic pitch swoop on a tom.

just at any point of tuning, make sure you don't hear that "paper rasp" sound from a lug being too loose. usually the bottom head is the first culprit of this.

for the bass drum, honestly for now just pitch it as low as it can go like i explained above. from there, you'll again have to tension the beater side head for the action you want - to suck in the beater or to make it bounce. as a beginner, having it suck it might feel best as you won't deal with bouncing as you develop pedal technique. i think this is ok for starting out, but consider that in the future you may have to increase that tension as you start to play faster.

the snare can be challenging. the snare side head (bottom) is a much thinner head than anything else. don't over tension it, but you definitely want tension on it. you also definitely want to do the crisscross pattern when tensioning so you don't snap it from one lug being too far out. but just get it to maybe a 1/2 turn or more of tension from its lowest point. you can really crank these things up. but we're just going for a starting point.

for the snare wires itself, same sort of process: while they are engaged, turn the tension screw to release it till it's not touching anymore. (if you can. some snare throwoffs don't allow adjustment when engaged, but most do.) hit the snare as you turn it and you'll hear it get very loose then not touch at all. now start turning it back the other way until it's what you want to hear. you can overtension this, so try to find that balance.

when i started playing drums i decided to experiment and see exactly how high i could tune each head. the snare especially can handle cranking it. but then i realized that the LUGS or bolts can fail before the head does. so you can keep going, but not too far. you might just have to figure that out on your own too.

the top snare head really has a lot of range. personally i like high tuned snare tops, so start at the lowest pitch, and just tune it up uniformly until it sounds like what you want. hard to go wrong here, until you get to maximum cranking of course.

that should get you started i think. get to the lowest pitch of each head, tune up a bit as a starting point, then adjust from there. drums are easy in that they're not as fragile as guitar string tension or similar. i mean you hit them after all. just know that too low tension and you'll dent the heads easy, and too high (and that's really really high) can break the heads or the hardware. the middle ground is huge and it's hard to go too wrong.

there's drum tension dials, and holding the middle of the head lightly to provide tension to match pitch as you tune around the drum. but that's for later.
 
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I'm going to need more detail Chris.

:D

Seriously, thanks for the advice. It's appreciated. I'm going to read that over about, oh, 30 times. When I put it together, the bass and the low tom, I wondered where this should be tonally (most of what I have is lightly tightened, as not too screw this up out of the box.) I'll study up, but when all that other shit hits the door, I can actually practice up for a few weeks, then worry about details.

Oh, I should mention the other stuff. On the way is a high hat stand, 2 Cymbal stands, a hi hat/2 cymbal kit, and a snare stand. It's a process.

R
 
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