Drum Programming

M

multivir

Inspired
Hey there,

I'm sure some of you guys did your demos with a drum computer or software like Superior Drummer 2.0...

I bought SD 2.0 a couple of days ago hoping to find a vast choice of different rhythms to choose from.
At that price point - compared to the WAV loop CDs that I have... But maybe I expected too much.

It only comes with a few different types of MIDI grooves. Those do have a lot of variations, but none of them fits the song I have in mind. And I can't change the feel of the song just because my drum loops don't match.

I tried to program something on my keyboard, but compared to the MIDI loops, my finger drumming really sucks. It's hard if you want different snare strokes etc. that a real drummer would do naturally etc.
So... unless I buy full blown digital drum - which I won't as I can't afford or play it...

How do you guys do this? I saw that there are a few MIDI loop libraries on the toontrack website for sale, but you can't really audition them, it doesn't say how many songs they contain and I don't want to buy them without knowing what I pay for.

Any suggestions on how to solve this or how to program great drums at home?

Thanks,

Mat
 
For me... if I don't start with a MIDI groove... I'll set up a metronome, and do many many takes of individual kit pieces on the keys. Repetition gets me closer to what I want. Usually, I'll just start with the snare and kick to keep it simple. Add the hats after that. Tweak the recorded MIDI by hand if it's off or not "performing" correctly (this includes velocity adjustments, timing adjustments and articulation adjustments like rimshots, etc.). Then add cymbals and toms, all the while keeping in mind how many limbs a single drummer has and where the velocities should generally be emphasized. And then tweak again.
 
I got a MIDI trigger pad with 16 velocity sensitive pads that I use to start things off and get in the ball park. After that its tedious hand work, MIDI editing, timing, velocity along with selecting different samples.
 
I use Toontrack DFHS since August 2006, upgraded to Superior 2.0 in summer 2008. The included MIDI-Grooves are nice, but I love to do my own stuff a lot more than using pre-recorded grooves. I got a Roland V-Drumkit which is pure fun to play! :) Well, that's what I'm doing..... I'm pretty sure it would work out great with something smaller like this for example: Korg Nanopad.....for about 90 bucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrPNPLFXP40 ;)
 
I program all drum work from scratch with the mouse, for developing ideas, or even a whole song. I don't focus on getting the most "human touch" to it, but
to get the groove/drumwork I have in mind spot on. The right drumwork is almost equally important to me as my guitar parts.
If we (=my band) decide to produce a demo song, our drummer programs what he really plays. He's used to writing down parts on paper, so it's not that different to "write" it into a midi track.
 
Coming from someone who has been through the ROLAND td-12/20 hell. I will tell you of the wisdom I have gathered.

I would definitely recommend the MIDI Libraries that they have on ToonTrack.com
They are only 20 bucks, easy to download, and setup, and you get TONS AND TONS AND TONS of styles, tempos, odd signatures, blast beats, thrash style drumming, etc...
I own all the Avatar programs which makes life MUCH EASIER. There are many different kits
I usually mix stuff together by audition the simplest beat I can find. Start with the first beat, and then keep going down to get more complicated rhythmic patterns. All the MIDI libraries function this way. Also playing with the timing of the song helps tremendously. Your midi sample with AUTOMATICALLY drop into your project in sync with the time signature, and beat you've programmed into your project.
What helps me the most is to have a lot of the different AVATAR Programs, like Drum Kit From Hell, Jazz, Nashville, etc...
The only stand alone product they have are EZ, Superior, and Metal Foundry as far as I know.
For MIDI, I would recommend the Songwriters packs.
Figure it this way:
Each Stand Alone program by itself is about 180$, but each Midi Library is 20 bucks. You can buy ALL the MIDI Libraries for the same price as 1 Avatar Program that is Stand Alone. Trust me they are worth every penny.
The only drawback is that afterwards you WILL undoubtedly have to punch in drums at some point if you don't have a drummer, or a MIDI controller. You can use a MIDI Keyboard, or a MIDI drum kit.
ANY Electronic kit can be used as long as it has MIDI in and out.
My personal preference would be to buy a cheap Electronic kit, not a ROLAND, as ANY kit will do, and just buy more pieces for it. Unless your RUSH or Dream Theater, most people aren't going to use a 10 or 15 piece kit. What your really looking for in the Electronic Drum market is the Brain. The Roland Stuff does have more inputs, and its an all around better kit. BUT, a Samsung, or something terrible out of a Sears catalog will be fine, as your not using the sounds it's loaded with, your using it as a MIDI controller with the Toontrack software.
This way you can have a real drummer come in, or just play it or punch it in yourself. It will save you money, time, and space, plus any attitude problems we musicians encounter regularly.
This is what I've come to learn over the years. I've had a Roland and Pintech, and some no name brand stuff, and I currently only have the Toontrack stuff. I've come to the conclusion that an Electronic kit that can be used as a MIDI controller, coupled with the MIDI libraries from Toontrack are the way to go personally. This way I am afforded all the options I could ever use, affordably without any headaches.
I REALLY hope this helps.
For soundsamples, Check out Meshuggah - "Catch 33" . The entire record was all done on an electronic kit, used as a midi controller, with pinch ins on the computer.
Lastly, the presets on the Toontrack stuff are to die for, and I personally hardly ever do anything but put a limiter on them in my mixes.
They also have DRUMTRACKER. I would definitely check that out. basically a person tracks a drum take, and then takes that sample and put it into Drumtracker, and tells it how many cymbals, kicks, toms, snares, etc, it has, and the Drumtracker send it to the Metal Foundry or Superior or whatever, and it plays it as a MIDI track. VERY NICE!!!!!!
-Ben
 
Check out Jamstix 3 (www.rayzoon.com).
Realtime groove creation instead of static reproduction (= Midi libraries).
I can´t recommend it highly enough. It´s a truly revolutionary VST.
 
Just a quick note to Soundshell777's otherwise very nice post...
Superior Drummer 2, EZdrummer, and Beatstation are Toontrack's "stand-alone" offerings.
Everything else adds sound libraries to those apps. SD2 comes with the Avatar sound library, EZD comes with the Pop/Rock and Cocktail libraries, and Beatstation comes with its Core Content library. SD2 can load any of the Toontrack drum libraries (SDX and EZX). EZD can load any of the EZX libraries. Beatstation can load both SDXes and EZXes and its own content. And *all of them*, including the additional libraries, come with unique MIDI content.

And I glossed over MIDI in my post with the little "if I don't start with a MIDI groove..." phrase... most of the time, I do start with one of the Toontrack grooves.

(disclaimer: I beta test over there a bit :))
 
I do all my programming with the mouse and copy 'n' paste. Have been sequencing in MIDI for a good 12 years or so though, so I suppose I've had a bit of practice.

Generally I'll just work quickly so I can get down my melodic ideas before I forget them, so I usually just start with a rough version of what I want, copy 'n' paste as much as I need to work with, and then I'll go back and work on the details later. Have pissed about with the grooves in S2.0 out of curiosity but have never actually made any use of them. I can't imagine sorting through trying to find something that works for what I'm doing could be any quicker than just putting down the ideas myself. The more you do it, the quicker you'll get at translating your ideas into a sequence.

The only other way I'd do it would be if I could afford the money and space for a decent e-drum kit. But I can't afford either, so it's mouse 'n' keyboard for me. :)
 
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