Does Tone Matching Work Better for High Gain Amps?.....

I vote the part below on the AC30 be moved to Cliff's Notes section.

Compression is a difference between those amps but it is felt more than heard. There are some minor EQ changes that occur depending upon what causes the compression.

Voxes compress more when overdriven due to "cathode squish". If you overdrive the power tubes the grids conduct. This current causes the charge on the cathode capacitor(s) to increase raising the cathode voltage. This in turn lowers the effective bias which reduces the gain. This creates a type of compression. In this case the plates don't go into clipping as early and the EQ changes slightly. The Axe-Fx II models all this.

Fixed-bias amps (and cathode-biased) amps compress due to the power supply sagging. This causes the plates to clip sooner.
 
Strangely we've had several people proclaim that Tone Matching is "a studio trick and in no way the same as profiling". When I've offered to do Tone Matches of their profiles they disappear never to be heard from again.

Theampfactory couldn't make some Tone Matchs for fractal ?
 
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Resurrection!

The reason is that "a good IR + Axe-Fx quality amp models" will always be better than profiling or match EQing a single setting on an amp.

With IR's you can change the mic up realistically. With the Axe-Fx you can use the amp EQ realistically. You can't do either with realism on the KPA IIRC.
 
I find it very hard to believe that the only difference between amps is just EQ.
And also, that tone matching is the same as profiling....

Still, even if Tone matching is pretty much the same as profiling, as claimed, I still think that Axe FX should still have profiling too. Reasons:
1) Killing the competition. People believe that tone matching is inferior to profiling. So, if it is said "Hey, we have profiling too", there are less reasons for a potential buyer to look at any alternatives that can do profiles.
2) When tone matching, you have to get somewhere in the ballpark of the tone you are after before you tone match. With profiles, you start with nothing. All the things, such as the amount gain and so on, are captured automatically.
3) Alien sounds are kinda cool.
 
I find it very hard to believe that the only difference between amps is just EQ.
IIRC, no one has ever said this, here or anywhere else. Not sure where you got that from.

And also, that tone matching is the same as profiling....
Again, no one has said this specifically.

Profiling:
A automated process by which signal measurements are used to select an appropriate gain stage (amplifier model) and settings, followed by an EQ matching of the frequency response at a specific operating point. (i.e. Automated Gain Stage Match + Automated EQ Match)

Tone Matching:
A automated process by which signal measurements are used to generate an EQ curve that matches the source frequency response to the destination frequency response. (i.e. Automated EQ Match)

In Tone Matching, nothing is happening to make sure the gain stage is in any way similar to the source; TM is essentially a sub-process of profiling. It is entirely up to the user to do this by ear (and feel or perhaps ckt knowledge (i.e. this amp is class A, or based off that amp which I have a model of, etc)) prior.

Fundamentally, amplifier/Cab signal chains can be thought of as Gain->EQ->Gain->EQ... chains. The KPA has a small set of generic amp/gain models it selects automatically (Cliff estimated it @ approx 7 or so, IIRC) and configures the gain stage based on its measurements during profiling. For tone/eq matching the end user must select some sort of nonlinear amplifier element and configure it. In the AFX they have 200+ to pick from, the closer to the original the better.

If the user makes an inappropriate choice then the tone, compression, sag, etc, of the tone match can diverge greatly vs the source. So, the tone match process has more opportunity for user error because a significant portion of the process is manual but the upside is that given the intense realism and constant improvement of the AFX's core amp model behavior wrt real world amplifiers, if the selection is very good (i.e. you know what circuit/model is most close to what you are matching). I would guess that many times this could result in an even more realistic match than a profile of the same.

Bottom line: Tone matching involves some skill and is less automated; but the end result is essentially the same, a gain and frequency matched signal. When applied correctly; results are extremely good.

Which leads us to:
Theampfactory couldn't make some Tone Matchs for fractal ?

1. It is more work to create because amp selection and initial dial in is manual.

2. A large number of commercial matches would be nearly impossible to maintain because the AxeFx core models are constantly changing, while this is virtually always for the better for the amp models themselves, your tone matches start to diverge rapidly within a couple of FW releases.

It would make no financial sense to do this.
 
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As for the initial question, by the way, I hear that KPA's profiling doesn't work as well for clean sounds either, and not just because of EQ, but also the amount of gain, which the profiles tend to exaggerate.
 
What ever the Kemper is doing, it is definitely more than eq matching as it nails the compression of the amp too. I use both Kemper and Axe regularly, One thing i notice that axe fx does better than kemper is that fuzzy breakup almost farting distortion you get in some amps that is similar to a a fuzz pedal but not quite the same, the axe nails this sound and when i've profiled a few amps that have this characteristic with the kemper it simply can't do it as well and give a less pronounced version of it
 
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