Do I take the blue pill... or the red pill....

Spawn2031

Spawn2031

Inspired
Ok guys, I am a long time L6 fan but admittedly mainly because I haven't really had the opportunity to sample much of anything else. I currently have a 500x and am on the pre-order list for the Helix. I also just signed up on the wait list for the AX8. I am a gigging musician that plays mid to high gain material mostly, I go direct into a PA. My main concern overall is tone. Even though I have been an avid L6 fan for quite some time, I am ready to entertain the other options since there actually is one other in my price range. I know this might be something akin to conferring with the enemy but I want to make the most informed decision I can. I have read, at length, all of the positives and negatives about the Helix and have come here to educate myself more on Fractal and the AX8 with hopes that I get the best unit that suits me. So here is what I feel on the two units are so far...

Helix - Pros
- Ability to run multiple amps
- Scribble strips
- Nice big screen to make quick changes easily on the fly
- I know how L6 sets up their stuff so I might be able to get to something I like quicker
- All the routing options
- Sounds better than the 500x

Helix - Cons
- Tone when compared to the AXE FXII
** That should kill it right there if it wasn't for the ability to load IRs which from some of the forums on TGP have it sounding almost dead on a kemper
- All the damn bugs going on right now, yeah they will be fixed at some point I am sure but man, some of them do worry me
- Updates, so far L6 does not do free updated amps and what not. Updated features, yes but not new free sounds

AX8 - Pros (from my limited knowledge)

- TONE
- More amps than I could shake a stick at
- Scene mode (people at L6 forums are constantly asking for this because evidently it helps with there not being any drop out which switching up amp sounds, although I do not completely understand how this works)
- Updates

AX8 - Cons

- No USB audio (no biggie I am playing out live and have a DI interface anyways)
- No built in expression pedal
- Looks like it will be difficult to edit on the fly without a PC handy.
- No scribble strips or color coding for the buttons so I have to use my aging memory...
- Only a single amp per preset
 
**Seems this was too big for onepost... sorry"

I will most certainly admit that I really like all the buzzes and whistles that the Helix offers and if, with IRs added, it can be made to sound like a kemper I will probably go that route. Unless you guys can turn me on to something that I am missing out on. I am very torn on this.

I expect to receive my Helix by the end of the month and I have 30 days to return it after that. I am pretty sure I won't have an AX8 by then to compare it Helix side by side, which would be the only real way to make this decisions. Any thoughts, corrections, advice on what I have found so far would be most appreciated.
 
if the debate is about tone and how many amp you can use, it's an easy choice.
Axe will win tone wise,
it really up to amps, if you need more then a single amp per preset ( 2 Chanel X and Y ) with 2 IR at the same time ( up to a total of 4 with X Y ) get the Helix.
 
I actually sold my Axe Fx II in order to get a Helix or Ax8 (yea regretting that decision right now lol)

So I got a Helix.....the tones out of the box are meh (best way to describe them) you will not be wow'd. You will love the scribble strips, the pedal functionality is great as well. It is super easy to edit from the actual pedal. It looks fantastic......though, (at least when I owned it) they have no computer editor. So it takes forever to set up tones because you have to do it from the screen (good thing it looks nice).

Anyway, it was buggy, to say the least. It wasn't saving things correctly, any IR's I loaded seemed to have weird issues, so on so forth.
Needless to say not long after buying The Helix had the black screen of death. It would make sound but you could not edit it, switch presets, or do anything. I returned it very quickly.

Now the Ax8 is really what I am wanting. I never used even half the functions of the Axe Fx II and I hated having to lug around a foot controller, a powered speaker, and a rack. Also at the price point (with everything included way over 3000 dollars in gear), so that is why I decided helix or Ax8 (I am far less worried about losing 1400-1500 dollars).

I can tell you from experience though, the Axe Fx tones just kill anything Line 6 has ever done.
 
This may not sound like a proper reply from a died-in-the-wool Fractalite, but go ahead and wring out the Helix and see what it does. If it gets you the tone you want, I wouldn't really care what anyone else thinks. You're happy and that's that. Even Cliff Chase will tell you that nothing is panacea, and some are just happier using other things.

That said, most of your other assertions look accurate to me. I don't think on-the-fly editing will be all that challenging on the AX8 from what I saw, but I know nothing of the Helix so it is hard to compare. Comparing the two, from my perspective, is down to this: I know beyond doubt that any Fractal product is built quality of sound and fitness for touring first. I know from nearing 5 years as a dedicated Fractal player in live gigging, the product works/takes a beating/sounds great/and is regularly improved by the manufacturer for free. These are things I know from first-hand experience. It is especially in that last point that FAS distances itself from all others. Support and ongoing development. I came from Line6 and Avid/Digidesign products. Updates were few to non-existent, and always at a cost (except those shared by other users).

Not sure which is the blue and which is the red, but for myself I take the pill with Fractal written on it, and don't even look elsewhere. There have only been two manufacturers I have gotten to that point with, in 40+ years as a player. I apologize that this doesn't exactly answer your post, but it comes to two things: 1. You should play on whatever makes you happy with your sound. 2. I have developed a lot of faith in Fractal's gear, which causes me to tell you to get what you want and if you don't know what you want, get Fractal. I don't have any faith in Line 6 from past experience and can't recommend them, but I am equally happy that you play Line 6 gear if it does it for you!
 
All in all the debate here is all about the tone. The amount of amps, honestly I don't really know if I NEED two amps at once. It's the only tone I have been able to get with my 500x that I like. All the buzzes and whistles I do like with the Helix but the audience can't see that stuff. The scribble strips are more for my own memory. I can never remember which one I put the damn delay on, lol. Having to buy the extra expression pedal isn't too much of a big deal either. At $100 less than the Helix, there's the cash for the expression pedal. I guess I'll just have to toss those IRs in and see if it makes me smile or not when it shows up. I guess the only major difference functionality wise would be the scenes that fractal does. Can someone provide me with a crash course or link on this so I can understand just what I am looking at?
 
In reading your post, I offer the following.

If you're a long time Line 6 user you will probably just love the Helix as you are used to their products.

I'm not loyal to either camp & believe in testing gear out for myself & seeing what it does for me personally. For me the Helix was not fast & easy to get great or stellar tones. I go for high gain tones & was able to eventually get some good tones. I'm not going to post those links here so just type in "X-Mann & Helix" on YouTube for said results if you're interested at all.

I've never tried any Fractal product, but I've been doing a crazy amount of research, talking to some Fractal Pros & the cool forum Pro dudes here as well.

For the exact same price you can own the AX8 & just look at the sheer number of amps alone in it, not to mention the drive pedals & FX.

The knowns about Fractal, Cliff, the quality & the dedication to constant updates has already won me over here.

I'm going into the AX8 knowing that getting stellar tones might take me more time since there's so much more to learn here. I want & need stellar tones & not just good ones & I'm convinced that this unit will get me there in a very BIG WAY!!!!

The community here seems more than willing to educate & help us all along the way too. That's just priceless to me!

Oh, I also looked at the endorser list & when my top 4-players (Zaza, Stevens, Tremonti & Saraceno) ALL use the same company, I laugh that I wasn't smart enough to come here sooner. :(

It's totally your decision & good luck making the right choice here. :cool:

Peace! X-Mann
 
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There's a lot to be said for "Devil you know" - if you are a died in the wool L6 lover then I suggest you get a Helix and forget about any other options.....in saying that...I purchased a Helix as I wanted an all-in-floorboard solution and I didn't want to wait. As an AXE FXII user I couldn't live with the tones - and I found the whole front end confusing (I know!) - so despite persevering with it I simply couldn't get along with it....it was too much of a compromise. I never saw the advantage of ANY of the things you put in the "pros" column - and things like the integrated expression pedal actually turned out to be a big disadvantage as I have a preferred type of pedal and I hated the "hidden switch" - the constant freezes and "black screen of death" issues were the final nail in the coffin - as the whole point of the unit was to use it live...and yet it was the last thing I had the confidence in using it for........so its gone. I will get the AX8 as I know the tones will be stellar and it gives me the, reliable, well supported, solution I want.
 
Warning: If you take the Red (aka Fractal) pill, you will remain eXcited for a very loooooong time & will NOT be able to stand-up for hours on end.

Other side effects include: Lower Gas Milage, Hot Bar Chicks throwing themselves at you, playing the guitar at a new level that you never reached before & the possibility of world peace! :p

You have been warned! :D

X
 
The AX8 does have multi-colored leds for each foot switch to show the status. A lot of people use custom magnetic labels with their Axe II and I'm sure they will be options available for the AX8.

As far as on the fly editing the AX8 has dedicated amp knobs and param adjust knobs under the screen. Tone adjustments should be easy but either unit would be a pita to deep edit while playing live, even with a nice color display.

I like the cheap m-audio expression pedals ($30) so its not expensive or heavy to add even four.

with two sets of stereo outs that can be independently controlled (foh & personal monitoring) and effects routing and controllers that create unlimited possibilities

The amp modeling is the best around imo as is the effects in a preamp/processor
 
Let's forget about the tone for a minute ..... there's a billion words been written on forums about that already and most of them are pure conjecture or knee jerk defence or vitriol against 'the opposition' anyway - when both devices are being widely used by the ordinary public I'll listen more to what people say.

Speaking from a good many years gigging pubs and clubs, any floor based device or pedalboard will get trampled on by others besides yourself plus the odd spillage thrown in for good luck. If I buy something and like it I will usually keep it forever (I have a room full of past used and road worn gear to prove it!). Therefore whatever I buy needs to appear to be reliable and built for purpose.

I just feel the Helix will not stand up to the abuse as well as the AX8 would. Yes it's got scribble strips, a fancy screen, magic touch sensitive buttons and a joystick ..... but I think all of these are just a bit too fancy for the environment the device as a whole is designed for.

It doesn't take the average human that long to start remembering what's behind some switches per a few banks - so scrbble strips are really just eye candy and a fancy screen is dandy if you're only a metre away from it. A joystick on a floor device is just stupid.

If your intended gig use is civilised - like P&W gigs or just home/studio, then fine, the Helix could just be the thing for you

I'll admit I'm wary of L6 because any stuff I've bought in the past from them very quickly lost any appeal I had when I first bought it - due to either not getting the sound I wanted or faults. Any firmware fixes for bugs were way too long in appearing and support was as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. Maybe there's a new era of L6 starting where customers are actually listened to - but shit sticks if y'know what I mean..
 
Even though I have been an avid L6 user in the past, save my guitars, this the single most expensive piece of gear (not to mention important) that I will be buying. Because of that, I am not allowing brand loyalty to guide me, I am trying to stay in biased so I don't regret my decision.

I wish that I knew someone or a store near me that even had an axe fx so I could hear the tones in person, but no go there as far as I know. Other than that...

Many ppl on the L6 forums have also brought up the issues with joysticks and other things getting hit / broke during a gig. That, along with the tone might be what sways me. I appreciate all the info guys!
 
Also, does any of u have an educated guess on how long someone that got on the wait list yesterday could realistically wait for this? Based on past fractal releases?
 
Spawn2031 said:
Also, does any of u have an educated guess on how long someone that got on the wait list yesterday could realistically wait for this? Based on past fractal releases?
Click to expand...

It won't be this year, that's pretty much a given. They've said the wait list is HUGE, but I don't think anyone but FAS can answer that question with any degree of accuracy.
 
Spawn2031 said:
**Seems this was too big for onepost... sorry"

I will most certainly admit that I really like all the buzzes and whistles that the Helix offers and if, with IRs added, it can be made to sound like a kemper I will probably go that route. Unless you guys can turn me on to something that I am missing out on. I am very torn on this.

I expect to receive my Helix by the end of the month and I have 30 days to return it after that. I am pretty sure I won't have an AX8 by then to compare it Helix side by side, which would be the only real way to make this decisions. Any thoughts, corrections, advice on what I have found so far would be most appreciated.
Click to expand...

I tried out a Helix. Realistically you're just going to have to listen in person for yourself to really know because everyone is different. The only downside is the return shipping..... The Helix has a lot going for it on paper, however I think it's still a bit rough around the edges at this point. Of course in my opinion. :)

Fractal's quality and tone speaks for itself!
 
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Spawn2031 said:
Also, does any of u have an educated guess on how long someone that got on the wait list yesterday could realistically wait for this? Based on past fractal releases?
Click to expand...

If you signed up yesterday i would say into January at least but who knows , depends on the stock sizes and how long to restock .
if they ship 100 a month or 30
 
Yeah I know it depends on alot of factors that none of us are gonna know. I'm just hoping it wouldn't be like summer time.
 
I returned my Helix. I never liked the hd500 pedal , and was hoping line6 finally got it right , with their new expensive FLAGSHIP. The toggle joystick spins when you try to move it side to side. I had to develop a "2 finger" grasp , in order to avoid spinning it by accident, and losing the WORK I did , while attempting to make it sound better.

The final say is SOUND. I don't care how great the display , editor , scribble strips , color , design , lights , etc - are. If it doesn't sound good , what's the point.
Some guys like the Line6 products, - and that's fine ! I'm excited to give Fractal a shot. Their approach is more in line with the way I operate. It's all a matter of opinion.
It makes me feel validated though , when other musicians share the same experiences with different gear that I've had , during 30 years of guitar playing.
So , ......... even if you CAN go buy a poor sounding unit IMMEDIATELY from a particular company , what's the point ? Good things come to those who wait. Waitlist. ;)
 
For me one of the huge pros of Fractal is the updates. Every guitar player I know has GAS to some degree. I've owned my XL for about a year and a half and it really had grown since then (FW14). Every firmware has more to play with and shape your tone. The Helix may sound great right now (haven't played thru one), but FAS gear will sound better next year than it does now, and better the year after. The likelihood that you'll get tired of your tone and want the next shiny thing gets slim when you have free tonal improvements every 4 months or so. My POD XT Live sounded great when I got it. It never got any better. Same with my friend's 11 rack. My XL sounds better all the time. That's really enough for me. I'm getting an AX8 because the form factor makes more sense for me, but honestly if I never got another piece of gear in my life I think I'd be content. FAS cures GAS.
 
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