DMX Control via MIDI Block

Genghis

Genghis

Power User
I am just starting to put together a lighting setup and wanted to see if anyone has put together a setup using the MIDI block to send chases, etc to a DMX controller. A search came up with a MIDI Solutions device that can translate the MIDI from Axe-FX III to the note names that controller boards use to trigger various events. Just wanted to see if anyone is doing something like that and has any tips.

Also looking for any general tips on other things I could consider. We don't have anyone to run a board for us, but I'd like to have a decent light show that doesn't just go on auto, although that might be my only real option for something cost effective to get started. I also have iPad available and have seen a few videos using that for control. Any ideas are welcome.
 
Admin M@ said:
Yes, the device you are talking about is the MIDI solutions MIDI Event Processor. It's a very good product.
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That's the one. I ordered one, so have that part covered. I don't yet have a DMX board, so looking for tips from anyone who has done this about how to get it working. Pretty fluent with MIDI terminology and use, but new to the DMX side. Was looking at a Rockville 384 channel control that has MIDI, but it may be more features than needed and I'm wondering if I'd be better off with a Chauvet or ADJ board. Looking for practical info from someone who has done this type of thing. I'm in the buy once, cry once crowd, so I'd like to get into something durable that I can grow with.
 
Do NOT buy the Chauvet Foot C2 - it's MIDI doesn't work as described in the manual. I got no answers from Chauvet, but the seller eventually confirmed the problem. I ended up building my own foot controlled DMX with Arduino.
 
Did some research and read some reviews, and it looks like the ADJ DMX Operator 384 in conjunction with the MIDI Events Processor should work for what I want to accomplish. Fingers crossed and I'll try to post back after I get the rig going and let others who may be searching know the results.
 
I’ve used an ADJ Operator on and off for a little over 10 years, in conjunction with a lot of different guitar/midi rigs. I never had more than 8 fixtures total (3 bars for wash/effects, 2 jewel effects, two white/amber pars for spotlights, and a laser), so not a large rig. I think I ended up with about 40 or so scenes. It’s a lot to control and keep track of that often was not aligned with guitar patch changes.

My personal opinion is to use a dedicated midi controller rather than relying on translated midi messages from the 3. Given the midi functionality of the 3, you either use up all of your control switches or have lots of duplicate presets and scenes to accommodate the different combination of patches and lighting cues.

Once you find a DMX controller, I would suggest you get used to even just using the controller directly to trigger cues by hand (or have someone else in the band do it). Once you get a feel for how frequently you want to have lighting changes, and how specific those cues are per song, you’ll have a better sense of how well it can be coordinated with your Axe.

Even when I would use the same midi controller to run my guitar rig and lighting rig, it never felt like a smooth combination: either I had to change banks to go from lights to guitar, or I would spend a lot of extra time programming patches to do both. Now I just use a separate midi controller; there’s a lot to be said for having buttons with dedicated functionality.

IMO
 
Thanks for the info. If I use a dedicated controller I'd have to get the bass player to run those changes. I also do lead vocals in the band and generally use scene changes on the Axe-FX FC12 to change sounds throughout the song or at the very least for solos. No additional tap dancing for me. I plan on keeping the lighting simple to just change on verse and chorus changes and solos, and not get much beyond that. My Axe-FX is in the same rack as my QSC Touchmix and I just started using in and out 3 on the AFX to add effects that the Touchmix doesn't do, such as intelligent harmonies for my vocals on a few chorus parts.
 
Genghis said:
I … wanted to see if anyone has put together a setup using the MIDI block to send chases, etc to a DMX controller. ...
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I do this using DMXIS running on a Windows tablet. DMXIS is a combination of lighting control software and a hardware DMX interface. DMXIS has now been replaced by another product, but I guess the new software still does the same thing.

On DMXIS I’ve created a range of lighting programmes. Generally we use one colourway per song, and change the pulse and flash patterns as we progress through the song.

On the AxeFX each Scene change causes the Scene Midi block to send CC and PC midi messages to the DMXIS device. My FC12 runs in Setlist mode, with buttons along the bottom row for Intro, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Solo And Outro. A Scene can change the sound and/or lighting. Sometimes a Scene change does nothing, but means I don’t have to think about what’s going on. I just step on the button, and the AxeFX does the rest.

Two things to think about: tempo and song changes. AxeFX doesn’t send midi tempo messages. Tempo has to be tapped directly into DMXIS. I have a tempo button on my pedalboard, with cables into both the FC12 and DMXIS device, so that I can set the same tempo on both at the same time.

For song changes I use Scene 8 is a quiet scene, with quiescent lighting. Each song has Scene 8 as its first Scene. So whenever I change song my guitar goes quiet, and the lighting calms down. Then I step on the Intro button, and everything kicks off again, usually with a new colourway.

Hope this helps.
 
Roland said:
I do this using DMXIS running on a Windows tablet. DMXIS is a combination of lighting control software and a hardware DMX interface. DMXIS has now been replaced by another product, but I guess the new software still does the same thing.

On DMXIS I’ve created a range of lighting programmes. Generally we use one colourway per song, and change the pulse and flash patterns as we progress through the song.

On the AxeFX each Scene change causes the Scene Midi block to send CC and PC midi messages to the DMXIS device. My FC12 runs in Setlist mode, with buttons along the bottom row for Intro, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Solo And Outro. A Scene can change the sound and/or lighting. Sometimes a Scene change does nothing, but means I don’t have to think about what’s going on. I just step on the button, and the AxeFX does the rest.

Two things to think about: tempo and song changes. AxeFX doesn’t send midi tempo messages. Tempo has to be tapped directly into DMXIS. I have a tempo button on my pedalboard, with cables into both the FC12 and DMXIS device, so that I can set the same tempo on both at the same time.

For song changes I use Scene 8 is a quiet scene, with quiescent lighting. Each song has Scene 8 as its first Scene. So whenever I change song my guitar goes quiet, and the lighting calms down. Then I step on the Intro button, and everything kicks off again, usually with a new colourway.

Hope this helps.
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Thanks! That helps me with thinking about how to organize things. Excellent ideas on how to approach it.
 
GM Arts said:
Do NOT buy the Chauvet Foot C2 - it's MIDI doesn't work as described in the manual. I got no answers from Chauvet, but the seller eventually confirmed the problem. I ended up building my own foot controlled DMX with Arduino.
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Naturally, I see this after already buying one used. Can I ask what the MIDI issue is with the C2?
 
Roland said:
I do this using DMXIS running on a Windows tablet. DMXIS is a combination of lighting control software and a hardware DMX interface. DMXIS has now been replaced by another product, but I guess the new software still does the same thing.

On DMXIS I’ve created a range of lighting programmes. Generally we use one colourway per song, and change the pulse and flash patterns as we progress through the song.

On the AxeFX each Scene change causes the Scene Midi block to send CC and PC midi messages to the DMXIS device. My FC12 runs in Setlist mode, with buttons along the bottom row for Intro, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Solo And Outro. A Scene can change the sound and/or lighting. Sometimes a Scene change does nothing, but means I don’t have to think about what’s going on. I just step on the button, and the AxeFX does the rest.

Two things to think about: tempo and song changes. AxeFX doesn’t send midi tempo messages. Tempo has to be tapped directly into DMXIS. I have a tempo button on my pedalboard, with cables into both the FC12 and DMXIS device, so that I can set the same tempo on both at the same time.

For song changes I use Scene 8 is a quiet scene, with quiescent lighting. Each song has Scene 8 as its first Scene. So whenever I change song my guitar goes quiet, and the lighting calms down. Then I step on the Intro button, and everything kicks off again, usually with a new colourway.

Hope this helps.
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I second DMXIS… our band tried a couple of other solutions, but it works great. We use a Behringer FCB1010, mostly because our lead singer and I split duty on light changes, so we set the board between us. Even as much of a pain as the FCB1010 is to program, the DMXIS software makes it pretty simple and it works great.

I would imagine the Axe as a controller would work even better and is probably much easier to program and edit when you need to make changes. I may try working up some changes on my FM9 to test it out.
 
I like the ida of DMXIS, but don't have any Windows tablets to use. Is there a similar way to use an iPad with software and a MIDI interface connected to it. Trigger the iPad to change lighting programs via Axe-FX III MIDI block?
 
Sevenmodes said:
I second DMXIS… our band tried a couple of other solutions, but it works great. We use a Behringer FCB1010, mostly because our lead singer and I split duty on light changes, so we set the board between us. Even as much of a pain as the FCB1010 is to program, the DMXIS software makes it pretty simple and it works great.

I would imagine the Axe as a controller would work even better and is probably much easier to program and edit when you need to make changes. I may try working up some changes on my FM9 to test it out.
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Maybe consider upgrading to the UnO or EurekaProm chips to get better programming capability. The Control Center for UnO is pretty nice.
 
unix-guy said:
Maybe consider upgrading to the UnO or EurekaProm chips to get better programming capability. The Control Center for UnO is pretty nice.
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So, ours has the EurekaProm chip that I installed when we bought it and I’ve never really explored any of the GUI software to help with programming… I need to do that. I just got the chip because the DMXIS software required it to communicate, I guess just like Control Center. I’ll look into that, thanks.
 
greiswig said:
Naturally, I see this after already buying one used. Can I ask what the MIDI issue is with the C2?
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Contrary to the manual, the Chauvet Foot-C2 does not respond to MIDI program channel messages at all. The ability to use MIDI to change chase speed and fade times as described in the manual is essential to my application. NOTE_ON messages work fine, but do not have the ability to set chase speed and fade times.

I'd also add that the way the foot switcches work is not really conducive to a live show IMHO. My plan was to use the C2 footswitches to control a simple inbuilt MIDI sender that would allow me to use it the way I wanted.
 
I have moved to a little different setup after 3 years with MyDMX... was a great lighting program but I wanted to eliminate my Laptop from my setup; so to streamline a little I found a DMX light program that runs on my iPad (Photon2), same iPad that I already also use for Mixing Station and for Bandhelper. I have the MIDI block in each FM9 preset, and can change MIDI CC / Light scenes whenever I change my FM9 scene. Works great.

I also use a couple of Control Switches on my FM9 to send CC values to change light scenes (one of which is blackout, for the end of the song or between songs).
 
Is there a specific reason why you're wanting the Axe to control all of this? My Metallica tribute band's setup is run entirely from a light weight laptop that runs Reaper for a multitude of things.

Currently, our Reaper project has one track that contains every song's click track, a track for backing effects, an Axe FX send for 2 different Axe units that controls channel and scene switching, and a track that sends midi signals to a free dmx light software called QLC+. I did enough engineering and work that everything is nearly just plug and play. The Axe units, usb to dmx cable, and our x32 are all connected over usb to a 4 port usb hub, and now we just plug the one hub into the laptop with Reaper and away we go.

If you setup the Axe units correctly, you can create multiple tracks for multiple midi sends to the units if you need. Right now, I run rhythm and vocal through my unit, and then lead guitar and bass through a second unit. I can discreetly control vocal effects independent of my guitar channels on my unit, as well as bass distortion and lead guitar's scenes.

This does only work out if you use click tracks and practice with them...but if you get used to them, it makes you tighter and essentially automates everything away so all you have to worry about is playing and/or singing your best, and Reaper will handle literally everything else.

Quick edit: It did take a VERY long time to figure all of the independent sends and returns and track channels etc to where it works flawlessly like this. But now that all the leg work is done, me and my drummer just sit down and work on lighting effects, then we do rehearsal and it's absolutely a breeze.
 
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That sound like a killer setup! We don't use tracks or click track so that would be a total workflow change for us and prob won't work for our current lineup - we often stretch out an instrumental or add a chorus on the fly, or the singer doesn't come in on the right count so we go around again....
 
That does sound like a killer setup, but won't work for me. I'm very high tech, but my drummer and bass player not so much, especially the drummer. He is a very good drummer who has been playing professionally for 45 years, but doesn't like headphones or in ears. Props to you guys for having the patience to set up something like this, but it wouldn't fit with our setup.
 
zionplayer said:
That sound like a killer setup! We don't use tracks or click track so that would be a total workflow change for us and prob won't work for our current lineup - we often stretch out an instrumental or add a chorus on the fly, or the singer doesn't come in on the right count so we go around again....
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Using click tracks definitely takes buy in from a few of the members and takes practice. Most bands that use them rely on just the drummer using it, and then everyone follows the drummer. In my specific situation, both my drummer and I use it because I grew up practicing to a metronome all my life and I feel a sense of control and comfort when I know my drummer and I are on the exact same page together with the click.

Genghis said:
That does sound like a killer setup, but won't work for me. I'm very high tech, but my drummer and bass player not so much, especially the drummer. He is a very good drummer who has been playing professionally for 45 years, but doesn't like headphones or in ears. Props to you guys for having the patience to set up something like this, but it wouldn't fit with our setup.
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Just like I mentioned where using click tracks takes a buy in from band members, using a full IEM setup takes buy in from everyone as well, though if you can do it, it does make everyone a better player. Even if you're not using click tracks, a mono IEM setup provides so much clarity to what you're hearing the performance from all members are elevated greatly. And in my experience, my band runs our IEMs in stereo so that my guitar is in our left ear and the lead's guitar is in our right ear, and now everyone can easily and discretely hear where the rhythm guitar is in the song as well as where the lead guitarist is.

For a quick personal example of the last comment: Before using click tracks, in our stereo setup we could easily hear that the lead guitarist had gotten off by a bar or two. The drummer and I gave each other a look to determine if we adjust to the lead or stick with where we are and make the lead guitarist adjust to us. On multiple occasions, because all band members are listening to each other, we've ended up doing both depending on how we felt in the moment. Now with click tracks, particularly with automation in the Axe and lighting, the lead will always have to adjust to us. But with practice ideally the lead doesn't get off.

I do hope you find (or found) the solution you needed, and if any of you guys want to start exploring more about IEM's and/or click tracks I'm happy to get pictures of my band's rack and routing and send example project files that we use to run everything.
 
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