Did a comparison between my FM3 and a Quad Cortex

I had the QC in I think 2022 but sold it due to it not having a desktop editor and coming from an HX Stomp, the workflow without the editor was an absolute pain. The sound of the QC, well at least the captures, sounded really great. Nothing to complain about that. However, with the FM3 all my needs are absolutely satisfied. The tones are superb and the editor is amazing. Best unit ever since I always like to change tone and tinker with stuff, which this awesome sounding unit is perfect for and not really doable with a unit that uses captures like Kemper or QC.
 
Habuman said:
Yes, but do it at gig volume through FOH, a FRFR or power amp/real cab. Not sure a comparison using headphones has any value.
Click to expand...
It absolutely does.
Gonwild said:
We know the FM3 has gotten serious improvements since release. Its been some years, but last I checked the Helix amp algorithms were not upgraded since release. Dont know if this is the case with the QC as well? Knowing that FAS is constantly polishing the amps and fx (that already sound great) is a big selling point (in addition to adding features and models). Curious to what degree the competitors do the same? are they just doing bug fixes? new features? adding amps built on the same 10y old algorithms?
Click to expand...
Helix has had multiple updates, they just arent as quick to happen. Last one was late 2023 i believe. Line6 knows who their competition are lol.
 
DropDee said:
I had the QC in I think 2022 but sold it due to it not having a desktop editor and coming from an HX Stomp, the workflow without the editor was an absolute pain. The sound of the QC, well at least the captures, sounded really great. Nothing to complain about that. However, with the FM3 all my needs are absolutely satisfied. The tones are superb and the editor is amazing. Best unit ever since I always like to change tone and tinker with stuff, which this awesome sounding unit is perfect for and not really doable with a unit that uses captures like Kemper or QC.
Click to expand...
So one of the biggest selling points is actually not a selling point. I continue to be amazed at how anyone would want this turd.

Let's see.

1. Limited amps without bringing captures into it.
2. Limited effects and trailing heavily behind other similar priced options as far as sounds and quality goes.
3. Interface isn't what it's cracked up to be. And the touchscreen isn't very responsive.
4. The cab block should be super cool but apparently people end up using their own IRs anyway.
5. The powersupply sucks and in some cases is super noisy.


What. A. Turd.
 
Gonwild said:
We know the FM3 has gotten serious improvements since release. Its been some years, but last I checked the Helix amp algorithms were not upgraded since release. Dont know if this is the case with the QC as well? Knowing that FAS is constantly polishing the amps and fx (that already sound great) is a big selling point (in addition to adding features and models). Curious to what degree the competitors do the same? are they just doing bug fixes? new features? adding amps built on the same 10y old algorithms?
Click to expand...

The QC firmware updates to list times they've improved specific amp models, like an amp that was released in 1.0.0 and updated in 2.0.0. My suspicion is that they, like Line6, are doing each amp as a bespoke model which makes the individual model nicer because it has all the unique switches, but means that universale improvements can't just be made across the board. Fractal has a universal model which can keep being updated which applies to each individual amp built on it.

Budda said:
It absolutely does.

Helix has had multiple updates, they just arent as quick to happen. Last one was late 2023 i believe. Line6 knows who their competition are lol.
Click to expand...
It has updates, but it's unclear whether they've making modelling algorithm improvements which apply to the previous models. i.e. is the Marshall model from firmware 1.0 still the exact same model making the exact same sound today on 3.60? In Fractal the answer is definitely no.
 
I have a friends QC at home and it's a great unit. I was able to dial in a 'I could play a show with it' preset in an afternoon - without even reading the manual, just to see how easy it is. Awesome tones as well, I did not have the need for "super crazy parameters", some boosts (especially the low-end) are also not needed compared to my FM3 presets. The capture function is also killer, I was able to capture my Neural plugin go-to sound in a few minutes.

But one of the coolest features is not having the need to redial in tones after major firmware updates: The amp models are labeled by version, this is genius and really great. With Fractal, I have to redial everything because the models are updated. With the QC, I can stick to my old tones and benefit from all other updates. This is really awesome.
 
MrPond said:
some boosts (especially the low-end) are also not needed compared to my FM3 presets
Click to expand...

This is something I found as well. I recall using the 5153 6l6 models, and having a very different experience with the same amp settings without a boost. I'm not sure exactly why this was.
 
MrPond said:
I have a friends QC at home and it's a great unit. I was able to dial in a 'I could play a show with it' preset in an afternoon - without even reading the manual, just to see how easy it is. Awesome tones as well, I did not have the need for "super crazy parameters", some boosts (especially the low-end) are also not needed compared to my FM3 presets. The capture function is also killer, I was able to capture my Neural plugin go-to sound in a few minutes.

But one of the coolest features is not having the need to redial in tones after major firmware updates: The amp models are labeled by version, this is genius and really great. With Fractal, I have to redial everything because the models are updated. With the QC, I can stick to my old tones and benefit from all other updates. This is really awesome.
Click to expand...
Interesting, but has both upsides and downsides, as I'm sure you realize.

Fractal can and does do updates that improve many or all amps, because they've improved the underlying algorithms. If each app is a completely separate implementation, that's not possible.
 
Personally I quite dislike how the neural DSP company seems to conduct itself (likely due to people calling the shots having a certain mentality). It's as if they've partly emulated a business model where inflated claims and failure to deliver are part of the game more or less, mixed with pseudo inspirational rhetoric. At least that's been my impression and I haven't liked what I've seen.

But at the same time.. quad cortex is still a unit with several positives. I do not agree with claims about how bad it sounds if we factor in captures. They aren't perfect and fractal amp sims aren't either (Cygnus X3 is most likely not the end of updates)... but can get quite close to the source tones for many uses. I specifically preferred some QC captures I made of a rockerverb amp compared to fractal rockeverb sim, but I'm generally not a fan of how the orange amps feel in the fm3. Maybe that has been improved in new firmware.

The hardware UI of QC is also way better for me personally than anything fractal makes. It's not close, really, different level altogether... BUT for most tones I generally prefer fractal. It's about nuances, but these can still be meaningful enough. And it's also about the editing ability on offer. I generally prefer to do tweaking in the digital world compared to shooting captures. QC amp sims don't offer much in that regard and they also feel more homogeneous to each other. When the differences between many real high gain amps are so small anyway, this may matter more.

I was considering getting a QC right when it came out to replace a Kemper but I'm glad I went with the fm3 instead. Used QC quite a bit afterward and do prefer it to the Kemper though for capturing accuracy.
 
Last edited:
MrPond said:
I have a friends QC at home and it's a great unit. I was able to dial in a 'I could play a show with it' preset in an afternoon - without even reading the manual, just to see how easy it is. Awesome tones as well, I did not have the need for "super crazy parameters", some boosts (especially the low-end) are also not needed compared to my FM3 presets. The capture function is also killer, I was able to capture my Neural plugin go-to sound in a few minutes.

But one of the coolest features is not having the need to redial in tones after major firmware updates: The amp models are labeled by version, this is genius and really great. With Fractal, I have to redial everything because the models are updated. With the QC, I can stick to my old tones and benefit from all other updates. This is really awesome.
Click to expand...
Just dont update your fm3, done.

For @Dimi Guitar re rockerverb, you may be using a different model than whats in the fractal library (mk1 or mk3 vs the mk2 modelled iirc).
 
Last edited:
Interesting comments from a few beta testers in this thread seem to imply there's something exciting not included in the current public Axe III beta. Based on the context of those comments, it's something that beats the QC or at least makes the QC less desirable compared to a Fractal product. Since we already know about gapless switching and amp improvements, there's no reason for the beta testers to drop hints and say they can't say anymore than vague hints. I'm guessing one of the following:

New GUI
Captures/profiles based on Cliff's previously discussed patent that Kemper is allegedly in violation of.
Half-life 3

Im going with Half-life 3.
 
Budda said:
Just dont update your fm3, done.

For @Dimi Guitar re rockerverb, you may be using a different model than whats in the fractal library (mk1 or mk3 vs the mk2 modelled iirc).
Click to expand...
Yes, I don't think it was the same rockerverb model. But also some people seem to think rockerverb was much improved in firmware that hasn't yet come to fm3, so hoping that may be bridge the gap.
 
Budda said:
Just dont update your fm3, done.

For @Dimi Guitar re rockerverb, you may be using a different model than whats in the fractal library (mk1 or mk3 vs the mk2 modelled iirc).
Click to expand...

This thread is about pro's and con's, especially in comparison to the FM3.
And if another unit can a. provide new features b. without having the need to redial in sounds, then this is a pro.
It's not about "just don't update" - yes, I don't have to, I'm aware of that. It's about having the option to update without sound changes.
 
MrPond said:
This thread is about pro's and con's, especially in comparison to the FM3.
And if another unit can a. provide new features b. without having the need to redial in sounds, then this is a pro.
It's not about "just don't update" - yes, I don't have to, I'm aware of that. It's about having the option to update without sound changes.
Click to expand...
Someone in another thread noted the recurring wish to "just make everything sound better, but don't change anything".

We do all wish that, but it doesn't actually make sense.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Someone in another thread noted the recurring wish to "just make everything sound better, but don't change anything".

We do all wish that, but it doesn't actually make sense.
Click to expand...

Your quote is not from me and has nothing to do with my argument, so again: The approach to label models to specific major firmware version is not breaking anything, it solves the problem of "breaking" existing presets on newer firmware versions and is indeed very clever.
 
MrPond said:
This thread is about pro's and con's, especially in comparison to the FM3.
And if another unit can a. provide new features b. without having the need to redial in sounds, then this is a pro.
It's not about "just don't update" - yes, I don't have to, I'm aware of that. It's about having the option to update without sound changes.
Click to expand...
New features without changes to sound would do exactly that, though. Updates to amp modelling do change the sound.

You can update the modelling without redialling, I do this for most updates.
 
I know, this is how the Axe modeling works.
I know that this approach would not be relevant in the Axe ecosystem.
But my argument is not about if something like that can be done, it's about how competitors are solving (common) problems.
 
I think to be fair to @MrPond, not every update needs to be a complete revamping of tone algorithms. I can see the frustration into wanting new models and minor features (as I am myself patiently awaiting the new 5153 Stealth) without worrying that your other presets will be compromised in the process.

One of the well-known cons of the Fractal products is needing a PhD in order to get the most out of them, which in contrast highlights the ease-of-use pro of the QC. Thus, Fractal presets by nature, especially in the hands of long-term experienced FAS users, tend to have far more hours put into them overall.

So I suppose my point is that it's indeed a pros/cons tradeoff. One product you get constant updates and improvements, but you'll have to put more work into maintaining your presets. And the other gets one update every 17 years or whatever they have planned for the QC.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom