Dedicated power amp (like Matrix) vs. powered monitors?

[funny_polymath]

These are the questions I have and I admit I have done ZERO research on the topic. Take either the Matrix or the Atomic future offerings. If I were to purchase the amp and two passives is it the same as purchasing two powered? Obviously there is a form factor and the amp part of the powered speaker but are there any other differences? Are they configured specifically for that speaker where a seperate amp might have differences so as to be more general and accomidating other brands? Or is the amp part of the powered speaker a clone of the solo amps one channel output?

I can see where on one hand you have a seperate amp that would give you the versatility to use with other equiptment and on the other powered speakers would give you the flexibility to plug them in to any non amplified rig.

Am I being too newbieish here? I guess the ultimate questions is, does the Matrix and Atomic powered monitors sound and behave exactly as the passives used with thier amp counterpart? If so then it 's just a matter of form factor and pricing no?

My head hurts!

For me, it boils down to 2 things:

1) Sound: I find active speaker enclosures are more prone to rattle at the resonant frequency for the metalwork associated with the amp (cooling fins, input panel etc.)
2) There is no way that an amp connected directly to a viciously vibrating speaker at high volumes can be as robust a solution, in the long run, than decoupling as many electrical components and connections as possible from the source of vibration. Yes, guitar amps have been around a long, long time, but for me, the Axe and the amp both go in a rack a few feet away (on top of a piece of neoprene, actually). I also think that besides this being a more robust setup, it probably sounds better at high volume.

 

[Manny Fufish]

These are the questions I have and I admit I have done ZERO research on the topic. Take either the Matrix or the Atomic future offerings. If I were to purchase the amp and two passives is it the same as purchasing two powered? Obviously there is a form factor and the amp part of the powered speaker but are there any other differences? Are they configured specifically for that speaker where a seperate amp might have differences so as to be more general and accomidating other brands? Or is the amp part of the powered speaker a clone of the solo amps one channel output?

I can see where on one hand you have a seperate amp that would give you the versatility to use with other equiptment and on the other powered speakers would give you the flexibility to plug them in to any non amplified rig.

Am I being too newbieish here? I guess the ultimate questions is, does the Matrix and Atomic powered monitors sound and behave exactly as the passives used with thier amp counterpart? If so then it 's just a matter of form factor and pricing no?

My head hurts!

Hey Cobbler, I asked Matt at Matrix the same question and I understand the powered wedges will have the GT-50 or GT-100 blocks in them which I've been assured sound exactly like the GT rack units like my GT1000FX. There was talk on the forum that the speaker will be different in the powered version, so I have asked that question as well, and I'm waiting to hear back from matrix. If the speakers are the same, then they should sound exactly the same whether you use built in or external power. I prefer external power cuz I can choose to run that to a guitar cab for the 'amp in the room' thing but I guess that's a preference in having that ability.


BTW, did you go with those pickups we PM'd about some time back? Interested in your feedback if you did.

Take care

 

[cobbler]

BTW, did you go with those pickups we PM'd about some time back? Interested in your feedback if you did.

Did not pull the trigger on those yet. Got to looking at others and as usual have spent way too much time thinking about it. Soon!

I will now offically set the over/under on Scott P's upcoming RCF vs. Matrix CFR vs. Atomic CLR thread at 20k views! I'm betting over!

 

[paulmapp8306]

Anyone who compares two products and has only tried one is doing all of us a disservice by rendering a comparative opinion.

Last say on the matter. i DID NOT compare the two products. I mearly took the prices of both products, took into account who has to make a profit at those prices, and came to a reasoned conclusion on the probability of which was better quality/components etc. I maybe made one too many (or maybe shouldn't have made any - as people have suggested) assumptions, indeed thinking about it - one is class A/B the other class D - so even comparisons there a bit wrong really as costs will vary. I gave NO comment on which was better in terms of sound.

I take on board that my "assumptions" are just that - and maybe I shouldnt have made them - but It was my opinion i was sharing, backed up by (as stated possibly a flawed) reasoning, which anyone is free to disagree with. ll state again, both pieces of equipment are pro level - from general feedback both sound great - they both do different jobs and the way you want to work will bear MUCH more influence on which you choose than any small difference in build/design/component quality there might be.


for Manny Fufish, the speakers in the initial Active and Passive Matrix releases will be different. There MAY be an option down the line to put either speaker in either cab - and maybe that wont be offered.

 

[maxdown]

From a prospective buyer point of view - well ok, this prospective buyer's point of view anyway, the bugger of a thing is that we have the differing speaker options in the Matrix passive/powered offerings - so to get a fair review of all the options there'd be a further delay to allow the powered Matrix to get into production.

Not sure if that's some sort of strategy or not on Matrix's part while waiting for Atomic to show their hand - but to me it means I won't pull the trigger on a Matrix cab of any sort until I see/hear both options. Different speakers just can't sound the same regardless of xover settings or cab design IMO.

I'm assuming here the Atomic CLRs will be using the same speaker for both passive and powered? If not, then I apply my same thinking as above.

All we need now is RCF to announce a forthcoming passive NX and I'll take to the drink .............

Sorry for contributing to the 'off topicness'

 

[Scott Peterson]

One reason for choosing powered monitors over the power amp/passive cab setup is that most (all?) of the better powered cabs are bi-amped. That's an important distinction.

 

[romanianreaper]

I just wish folks on the forum that can afford all of the different cabinets and amps would do a videotaped shootout of some kind to give people an idea of what to expect from different equipment. If you type "GT800FX" on Youtube, you get a handful of clips. Same with searches for KRK monitors or QSC speaker cabs, etc.

There are Axe-FX clips up the wazoo, including people unboxing them, talking to them, bathing them. Try and find the equipment that actually powers the Axe-FX and it is like finding a needle in a haystack.

 

[CrazyTrainer]

One reason for choosing powered monitors over the power amp/passive cab setup is that most (all?) of the better powered cabs are bi-amped. That's an important distinction.

It is? Surely what matters is how it sounds, period. Bi-amping is not the cure to all evils.

The primary reason for using bi-amping in big monitors is cost savings and the problems with designing crossovers much above the 1kw mark ... its perfectly possible to design and build very nice conventional crossovers around the 500W mark though. At that sort of power level I would prefer a well designed traditional crossover agaisnt a poor DSP based crossover and bi-amping any day. I don't see many people complaining about stuff like the SRX712's and d&B MAX12's ... so it is perfectly possible to achieve exceptional results without bi-amping

 

[nater]

I think the overall consensus on this topic is basically that in the price range I'm in (and probably a fair amount of us on this board) we're not going to experience any significant difference between the 2 options. Surely, if you're willing to spend the money, you can get better quality on both options. I'm sure that at the highest of qualities separate is most always the best quality. I've always believed that separate components designed to do one thing are usually the best option. However, when money and budget come into play, it mostly comes down to personal choice. Some like an all-in-one, and some like the amp/passive.

In my case I've already chosen the all-in-one for this particular purchase and so far I'm very happy with the choice. I might think differently in a year from now when there are some kick ass passive I want, then I'll just use my Matrix (which I will have by then too). Again, at this price range, I think it comes down to choice. It seems the technology of the D class amps and DSP crossovers has gotten pretty good to the point where you probably can't tell much of a difference when you're dealing with $1K components.

 

[Scott Peterson]

It is? Surely what matters is how it sounds, period. Bi-amping is not the cure to all evils.

The primary reason for using bi-amping in big monitors is cost savings and the problems with designing crossovers much above the 1kw mark ... its perfectly possible to design and build very nice conventional crossovers around the 500W mark though. At that sort of power level I would prefer a well designed traditional crossover agaisnt a poor DSP based crossover and bi-amping any day. I don't see many people complaining about stuff like the SRX712's and d&B MAX12's ... so it is perfectly possible to achieve exceptional results without bi-amping

That's a strawman fallacy debating my point. I never claimed 'evil' nor claimed that using a power amp with a passive speaker cannot achieve 'exceptional results'. IMHO, I don't personally feel that one is inherently superior in any way to another; it's just personal preference. That's all I've put forward as opinion on this thread. So relax man. I'm not trying to win any debate, nor be right or wrong.

I brought up a discussion point. The discussion - or what I thought was the discussion - was simply facts and opinions about power amp/passives vs. powered speakers. Nothing more. Not a 'best' sort of DEBATE!..., but rather a civil discussion. Discussion in my mind is allowing different viewpoints and facts to be openly discussed without the sort of 'either/or' rhetoric. It isn't necessary. There's no need to tear down anyone's point with poor debating tactics. It's gear. There's nothing to 'win' here. We are just talking.

 

[thekonas]

Agreed ^
I'm sure the OP meant no harm. Things are often misconstrued via the internet. I find this discussion fascinating and am learning a ton!

 

[drewdy]

how does Crown XTi 2002 compare to the Matrix to power FR speaker?

Its hard to believe that the Matrix AB type power is offering more power than the new Crown stuff and its lighter....??? Really???

 

[bobby_g]

Its hard to believe that the Matrix AB type power is offering more power than the new Crown stuff and its lighter....??? Really???

The weight may very well be in the power supply design - Matrix use switching power supply (similar to how class-D amp works) and Crown may be using a (big) transformer-based design like in tube amps.

 

[MatrixAmp]

Its hard to believe that the Matrix AB type power is offering more power than the new Crown stuff and its lighter....??? Really???

See if you can borrow both from a friend/s and have a listen for yourself, see which you prefer.

If you are happy with what you are hearing, that is all that counts.

Best regards
Matt

 

[MatrixAmp]

See if you can borrow both from a friend/s and have a listen for yourself, see which you prefer.

If you are happy with what you are hearing, that is all that counts.

Best regards
Matt

If fact, if you happen to be in England you are welcome to pop in and have a listen for yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We will be having a demo session at The Oxygen Rooms, in Birmingham, England, on the 12th of July.

We will have an Axe-Fx II, plus production spec "CFR12" passive wedges, our "Big Active Wedges" and a selection of Matrix amplifiers from the GM50 through to the GT1000FX for you to play with.

If you want to bring along your Axe FX, Guitar, 4x12 or just a plectrum and try out the gear we will be pleased to see you.

Our resident guitar demonstrator John Hardman will be around to answer your questions, along with various technical staff from Matrix.

We are planning to have a new speaker product there, subject to them being completed in time, so it will be a bit like Christmas.

We are anticipating allocating 30 minute slots from around 4:30/ 5:00 pm, so just let us know if you want to come along, as soon as possible, so we know how long to book the studio for.

It is going to be very informal. You are, of course, welcome to hang around after your slot and mingle with anyone who is there, refreshments will be provided.

To let us know the slot that you would like please email sales@matrixamplification.com with "DEMO" in the subject line.

I look forward to meeting you.

Best regards
Matt
-------------------------------

 

[thekonas]

Now that's customer service!