Cygnus X-2: No More Low Cuts Needed Here

[Stratoblaster]

Loaded up the Cygnus X-2 Beta 3 on the FM3, reset my amp blocks on my main rock preset, and only needed about 10 minutes to completely redial the four amp channels (a blues mild OD tone, a 70's 'classic rock' standard tone, a modern-ish higher-gain, fat rich mid tone, and a lead tone all using the four amp channels).

One thing I noticed right away was, as Cliff said in the release thread, is that, you can abandon any low cuts you may have used throughout and I concur fully with that.

I've needed to use low cuts (and/or lowering the low end bump on the speaker resonance - I almost always lowered that bump) here and there (CAB/AMP block, PEQ's, etc.) to tame 'out of control' low end energy ever since I've used Fractal gear starting in 2009 and didn't need to do any of these tweaks, anywhere, to wrestle the lows into submission. This was always a fine balancing act, since it was easy to suck out the body of your tone getting that all right.

Today I needed to actually increase the Bass and Depth parameters to values I've never even got close to before and the low end just 'behaves'...this is awesome. Instant low end goodness right out of the gate. Fantastic.

And, I'm not so sure I need to tweak the Bright Cap (on amps with one) anymore; I always tweaked that and today I simply disabled it completely and was still able to set the low end/bass right where I wanted it to achieve a perfect mix of bass/low-mid body and clarity without washing things out.

I will revisit all of this going forward, but I just got in from rehearsal and can say I've never had it easier to get where I want to be. There is a lot to discover and unpack with Cygnus X-2, that much is certain.

Using the 5150 Blue 100W amp for my 70's "Marshall" tones I've never had such a satisfying 'crunchy, punchy, bouncy bottom end' like I'm getting now. There also seems to be an overall better clarity and detail in distorted tones.

This is all very exciting stuff. I'm pretty pumped how the low end 'just works' with this new release. The days ahead are going to rawk...!

 

[komorebi_dayo]

it feels like a culmination of over fifteen years of earnest efforts to wrangle the mysteries of tube amps into the digital realm. this revision seems like the hardest work is in the books, and now it's just a matter of fixes for small model-specific issues and continuing work on the UI and other functionality. it's a sheds a single tear moment as i see it

 

[Stratoblaster]

it feels like a culmination of over fifteen years of earnest efforts to wrangle the mysteries of tube amps into the digital realm. this revision seems like the hardest work is in the books, and now it's just a matter of continuing fixes for small model-specific issues and continuing work on the UI and other functionality. it's a sheds a single tear moment as i see it

Yea it seems that way...in one of the Cygnus X-2 beta release threads Cliff said that he has 'finally solved several long standing issues that were bugging me' (or something like that) in this modeling version, and my experience with it tonight (even as limited as it is to this point) seems to bear that out. I was able to drop a portion of a long-standing workflow practice today (low cuts/tweaks)...it's very satisfying to be able to do that.

They say you spend 90% of your effort refining/optimizing the last 10% of anything, and it appears that years of grinding it out is bearing fruit.

 

[JWDubois]

I worked hard to learn all the different ways of taming the bass.

But I won't be sorry to not have to use them anymore.

 

[Stratoblaster]

I worked hard to learn all the different ways of taming the bass.

But I won't be sorry to not have to use them anymore.

I'm 100% with you here man....it was actually a bit strange to not have to reflexively start my usual processes to tame the bass/low end like I've been doing for eons.

 

[LiamH]

Oh interesting! I hadn't noticed the wise words in the release notes. I started habitually leaving high pass filters on all the cab blocks I commonly used years ago, as until recently my main FRFR rig had a 15" speaker dealing with low end, and some of the small combo models were kind of ridiculous. (In fairness, I own some of the real amps modelled, and in my studio live room they can also get pretty ridiculous for uncontrolled frequencies below 140 Hz, even with nominal power output of 12 watts in the case of my Princeton Reverb).

I'm going to need to try reversing some of my usual bass taming processes to see what lies beneath the high pass filter. There was something that bugged me a tiny bit too. Hard to put my finger on it, but reproduction of frequencies lower than the lowest note "thump" from my FRFR setup never quite reproduced the feel of a big amp and cab at high volume. However, the projected sound of a real 4x12 in an auditorium is badly flawed in that no two audience members get to hear quite the same frequency set, and those in the "treble beam" definitely don't get a great listening experience.

I'll be interested to see if the overall feel is very different, but lord only knows when I'll next get to try it in a big enough space to lose annoying room resonances.

Exciting times! Thanks for the useful post.

Liam

 

[Stratoblaster]

Oh interesting! I hadn't noticed the wise words in the release notes. I started habitually leaving high pass filters on all the cab blocks I commonly used years ago, as until recently my main FRFR rig had a 15" speaker dealing with low end, and some of the small combo models were kind of ridiculous. (In fairness, I own some of the real amps modelled, and in my studio live room they can also get pretty ridiculous for uncontrolled frequencies below 140 Hz, even with nominal power output of 12 watts in the case of my Princeton Reverb).

I'm going to need to try reversing some of my usual bass taming processes to see what lies beneath the high pass filter. There was something that bugged me a tiny bit too. Hard to put my finger on it, but reproduction of frequencies lower than the lowest note "thump" from my FRFR setup never quite reproduced the feel of a big amp and cab at high volume. However, the projected sound of a real 4x12 in an auditorium is badly flawed in that no two audience members get to hear quite the same frequency set, and those in the "treble beam" definitely don't get a great listening experience.

I'll be interested to see if the overall feel is very different, but lord only knows when I'll next get to try it in a big enough space to lose annoying room resonances.

Exciting times! Thanks for the useful post.

Liam

Cool, glad you got something out of my ramblings heh. The new modeling, combined with the newer Speaker Thump (my favorite new feature), are both proving to be a bit of a game changer for me as far as how the low end sounds, and feels, thru FRFR systems. Indeed, the Speaker Thump has added 'something' that gives my CLR's more of a real cab feel.

Here's hoping you can get where you want to be with Cygnus X-2, and don't forget to play with the Speaker Thump and some of the parameters on that page...good luck mate...!

 

[Stratoblaster]

I worked hard to learn all the different ways of taming the bass.

But I won't be sorry to not have to use them anymore.

Ahhh your post reminded me of my MS-DOS days, where I spent hours learning, and getting very proficient with, the various memory managers (EMS/XMS/DOS 4GW), loading device drivers (organizing/loading them optimally like Tetris blocks heh) into high memory to squeeze out as much of the 640K RAM (!!!) as possible, and creating boot scripts to navigate all of those managers, etc.

Hard won knowledge for sure, and I was proud of getting to that point and that I was 'on top of it'...but wasn't at all upset when a newer version of Windows came out and negated all of that. It was like, finally...lets move on here and was glad to.

 

[LiamH]

<snip>

Here's hoping you can get where you want to be with Cygnus X-2, and don't forget to play with the Speaker Thump and some of the parameters on that page...good luck mate...!

Well, after 5 minutes through my MF.10 stereo pair I was starting the to think, "Well I've known some of these things to be subtle, but this is so ridiculously subtle. I can't hear or feel any difference wherever I set Speaker Thump!"

And then it dawned on me that the bulk of the effect is sub-sonic, so I need to ditch all the high pass filters I have in pretty much every Cab Block in every preset I generally use. (What an idiot!)

It still feels quite subtle, but it has also occurred to me that this setting will be very sensitive to which IR is being used, and it may be that I need to crank the bass tone control back up in some of the presets I regularly use. A shame that my 15" FRFR has turned out not to be the most suitable for guitar, because I know that will reproduce "thump" well into sub-audio.

So, a little more exploration needed with the Red Sound/G66 speakers. I think there's a lot more to come.

Ahhh your post reminded me of my MS-DOS days, where I spent hours learning, and getting very proficient with, the various memory managers

I can still remember a more computer proficient friend explaining back in those days, that the way to remember the additional DOS memory was that "exPanded memory" was Practically useless, but "exTended memory" was Totally useless. I got pretty cute at coding C++ in compact and efficient ways, but had to have very safe and full back-ups. Occasionally I rendered the PC or laptop I was coding on useless to the point of needing to reload DOS and start again from scratch. You're much more forgiving than me. When the animated paperclip turned up I was resentful to the point of anger! How on earth could anyone get so relaxed about RAM allocation that they could waste it on graphics for automated help? Thankfully I have adapted to just taking the wasted bytes and bits on the chin since then!

Liam

 

[Stratoblaster]

Well, after 5 minutes through my MF.10 stereo pair I was starting the to think, "Well I've known some of these things to be subtle, but this is so ridiculously subtle. I can't hear or feel any difference wherever I set Speaker Thump!"

And then it dawned on me that the bulk of the effect is sub-sonic, so I need to ditch all the high pass filters I have in pretty much every Cab Block in every preset I generally use. (What an idiot!)

It still feels quite subtle, but it has also occurred to me that this setting will be very sensitive to which IR is being used, and it may be that I need to crank the bass tone control back up in some of the presets I regularly use. A shame that my 15" FRFR has turned out not to be the most suitable for guitar, because I know that will reproduce "thump" well into sub-audio.

So, a little more exploration needed with the Red Sound/G66 speakers. I think there's a lot more to come.

Lol, no, nothing idiotic about that!!! There have been a few instances where I couldn't hear/feel any changes until I realized that I had something set somewhere that would have negated any changes I was making. So, as a rule, I always audition these kinds of new changes/features with a fresh preset with just basic AMP/CAB blocks which are freshly initialized.

I also think the effect of "Speaker Thump" is more apparent when you're moving a bit of air and cranked up a bit.

You're much more forgiving than me. When the animated paperclip turned up I was resentful to the point of anger! How on earth could anyone get so relaxed about RAM allocation that they could waste it on graphics for automated help? Thankfully I have adapted to just taking the wasted bytes and bits on the chin since then!

Oh man....that paperclip....sigh....