Current state of modeling vs real amps

Tahoebrian5

Tahoebrian5

Fractal Fanatic
I've got an FX8 and have a be100 in shipping as I type. I'm considering buying an axe fx to also use in the loop and to experiment with foh and maybe frfr monitors in parallel or wet/dry.. Just generally having fun. Part of me is scared that I'm going to like the axe fx better through monitors than trying to play around with it in the loop etc. Anyway, I'm just wondering how those of you that have both a top shelf real amp, and a well set up axe fx.. How does it stack up? I've read that it's not quite the same as having a real amp.. Maybe it's closer now with quantum?
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
How does it stack up? I've read that it's not quite the same as having a real amp.. Maybe it's closer now with quantum?
Click to expand...

So you'll get a lot of biased answers initially that it's the greatest thing ever which is perfectly fine. You have to understand the concept first: running FRFR or FOH direct (which is how I leverage FAS technology) is simulating an amp playing through an impulse response (IR) as a recorded version of an amp. With that said, it is the most accurate piece of equipment I have ever owned and I have converted at least 3 or 4 guitar friends to it. I use it at my church all the time and love the versatility of such a unique sonic weapon.

With that said, your concern with losing the "real amp" feel is a struggle for some individuals. If you fully evaluate your use cases and can get by with studio monitors and a laptop then just FOH with FRFR, great!. Some miss the idea of "amp in the room" feeling with air getting pushed and substitute that with an amp/powered cab. This is a great alternative for leveraging the device but for me, it's much simpler dialing in an amp/cab combo virtually.

Evaluate all your circumstances and use cases before you invest, but once you do, you won't be sorry. Don't worry about being underwhelmed either, those days are over.
 
The gap between a 'real' amp and digital modelling closed a while ago for me with the Axe Fx. Since then it's just gotten better and better with each FW release.

I don't miss my amps at all and have no plans of ever going back.
 
I have more than a few tube amps and an axe fx II. They all have their strengths and there isn't any one of them that makes the others obsolete.
 
I love tube amps but almost all have this one sweet spot - be it clean, crunch or high gain. With a quality FRFR system the Axe-Fx can get you most all of those. I think some can be considered better.
If you get comfortable with tweaking you can even make unique or signature tones that aren't possible with tube amps IMHO.
 
So, scenario.. You have a Friedman be100 half stack, and right next to it you have a fractal set up with CLR monitors, and set to a be100 patch and setup well, put them both behind a curtain and play them back to back... How's this going to turn out?
 
it was superb back in fw5
now it is stellar

I'm mid-way thru reamping the guitars for a movie trailer for EMI with Quantum1.0
it's sounding wonderful..
 
I've been an in-ear user for about 12-13 years now and have had various tube amps backing me up. What I've been hearing for years was a rig that was mic'ed up and in a mix, that's what I think the Axe is made for, and it's a total viking at it.

To make your scenario a little more apt and one that I've offered to a few of my purist friends is: You haul your massive half stack down the steps of our favorite cellar bar, mic it up and A/B with my 2 rack space Axe through a sound system and see how it turns out. Then load out go home and wake up the next day and do the same thing then see how it turns out.
 
I was chatting with Misha Mansoor about the Friedman HBE as he also owns the real thing. He said that the HBE is pretty close. Same character, both super tight and very pronounced harmonics.

I also did an A/B with a real Mark IV and it's honestly so close I would never bet money on knowing which is real or Axe.

Is it 100% the same? Probably not since Quantum is not "the final FW" and even two of the same amps in real life don't sound the same.

I would say it's as close as I would ever need it to be and has been for a long time.
 
Yeah really the only complaint you read is people who miss feeling a cab on stage. It's very seldom that they can't get a good sound. For me I use IEM so I never heard my cab on stage anyway. So the axe for me is perfect. It is so much more transparent then my half stack was. And I don't need to blow my neighbors away to get a great tone.

Most tube amps you really need to crank up to get that tone but the axe will give that to you even at low volumes. And having my tone be consistent is fantastic I have always hated guessing what my rig would sound like in a room I may never have played in. The axe always sounds the same that in its self is worth the money.
 
At my church, they do not allow live amps on the stage (or my rack for that matter). They want a clean/sleek stage appearance. We use in-ear monitors. There are iso cabinets and the amps go inside there and are mic'd up. There isn't anyone mic'ing the amps that has true studio engineering experience. I doubt the mic positioning is the same twice. I mean, if player A plays this week, and then plays 4 weeks from now, I really really really doubt his amp will be mic'd the same way each time. I even doubt the same mic will be used, especially if two guys are using amps, and on this week, he gets there first, and gets "the best mic" and 4 weeks from now, he gets there 2nd, and gets "the next best mic".

A few guys have line6 products of various vintage.

I'm the only guy using an Axe FX II (mark 1).

Some of the guys sound good with their amps, but alas, they always sound the same on every song. They have the usual suspects of stomp boxes, and so, they just have the same sound and effects for every song. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But I'm just not the type of guy that wants to sound the same all the time, even if that sound is a good one.

But getting back to this constant debate: The staging policy being what it is, even the dudes with real amps are not enjoying the "amp in the room" or "pants vibrating due to air movement" experience. For that reason, having the highest quality modeler gives me uber consistency, uber options of sounds and textures, not subjecting me to the inexperience of volunteer stage techs that don't have a clue about mic'ing a cabinet properly, and tone that honestly lives up to the "in a double blind test, not even Cliff can tell anymore, and Clark won't bet money on choosing correctly" testimonials available on this forum.
 
Doing What? :roll
This is my FIRST question talking about Axe as a modeler vs. real amps and cabs.
First thing: are we talking about Axe direct? I must say yes couse all the hybrid combos (Axe into a power amp and cabs, or Axe into an amp loop) are not simple "modeler".
So say we are talking about Axe direct.
Then... direct for what? Recording or live?
Let's talk about recording.
If the question is "do you miss any real amp for recording having the Axe?" the answer is "no at all". Axe is better! Tons of possibilities, variations, colors in less time, less money and with the best result!
And live?
Even about live we need to be more precise. Are we talking about a miced amp+cab? If yes, the answer is the same as recording.
If we are talking about the sound of an amp + cab in a room or rehearsal without mics+pres+P.A. ... well what i see is that many ppl talking about this are posting videos where they play the Axe in front two small mixing monitors and then they say that Axe is not the same of a real amp in the room! :lol
Go direct into two BIG amped FRFR monitors (400watt rms or more)... with the Quantum fw and all the goodies... put the best IRs in a cab block... and you can get all the amps in the room you need!
So... i love my real HIWATT... and all my pedals... but... really... I don't need them!
 
You guys are making a pretty good case. For me, I play in a loud 80's metal band. Being able to turn up a real tube amp is not a problem at all. I only play live a few times a year so lugging gear around isn't much of an issue either. I'm truly just looking for the best possible setup.. Maybe it's both. I'll end up getting an axe at some point in the near future for sure, for playing at home and recording it's a no brainier.
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
So, scenario.. You have a Friedman be100 half stack, and right next to it you have a fractal set up with CLR monitors, and set to a be100 patch and setup well, put them both behind a curtain and play them back to back... How's this going to turn out?
Click to expand...

I just depends, if you're used to the sound of an amp through a guitar cab, you're going to choose the amp. For a true blind test, you would have to do your comparison with the Axe Fx (no IR) feeding a flat response power amp into the same guitar cab.
 
I am one of those guys on the other side of these debates. I tried using the Axe with the "cream of the crop FRFR wedges"
and just could not get along with the FRFR. I now use it in 4cm mode with my JVM and I love it.
For recording I don't think there is anything out there that can touch it.
for playing live, I need to feel connected to my rig or I play like crap . I could not go In ears for that same reason.
I tried it with my band a few times and absolutely hated it.
If fryette would ever come out with the LXII power amp and it lived up to the hype, I would ditch the JVM and go
FOH from out 1 and into a real cab from out 2.
I have tried a bunch of power amps and did not "love" the axe with any of them .
Now this is a personal thing not a knock against the Axe
or any of the power amps I tried, so you really need to "try for yourself" and see how it works for you.
I'm also playing in a cover band that does 70'80'and 90's rock (rowdier stuff) and in a road house blues band.
The Jvm is works great so I have no need to try and make modeling work for me.
If I had a BE100 I'd be all set :)
 
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