Creating presets that sounds good direct, and thru a real power amp and cab?

trancegodz

trancegodz

Power User
How do you make a preset that sounds good direct, and also thru a real power amp and cab?

I created a Marshall Plexi preset that sounded like I wanted through my studio monitors, and recording direct. I used the 4x12 Marshall cab with Greenbacks sim in the Fractal.

After reading page 19 of the manual I decided to see if I could use the exact same preset I’d just made in the Axe FXII, but using a real power amp, and a real 4x12 Marshall with 25 watt greenbacks to play the Axe FXII through. I assumed it would sound exactly the same, but it is nowhere close. What gives? I tried turning the power amp off and tried leaving it on. I turned the speaker cabinet simulation off in the Axe like it says in the manual, since I was using a real cabinet.

How do you create a preset on the Axe FXII that sounds perfect direct and through studio monitors, and be able to use the same preset with a real power amp and real cab and make it sound the same? Is it possible? If so, how?
 
It would probably work better and sound a lot closer if you made an IR of the cab your using. Then in your signal chain place an FX block before the cab sim and run your amp and cab combo off of that.
 
Sixstring said:
It would probably work better and sound a lot closer if you made an IR of the cab your using. Then in your signal chain place an FX block before the cab sim and run your amp and cab combo off of that.
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Thanks for the tips. I've seen threads explaining how to make IRs of your own cabinets, but I haven't tried that yet since my real cabinets are just stock Marshall cabinets with 25 watt greenbacks, and I figured they'd be the same as the sims already in the Axe FX. I'm still learning. All tips are appreciated.
 
An IR captures the sound of a particular guitar cabinet at one mic position (or multiple, if you shoot the IR through more than one mic). When miking a guitar cab, something as simple as moving the mic a few centimetres can drastically change the recorded sound. This also applies to IRs. It is also worth noting that most of the IRs in the axe-fx are close miked, and this in itself will sound drastically different from a real guitar cab at a normal playing distance. Try putting your ear against the grill when you play - it will sound nothing like the sound you dialled in, and most likely sound horrible.
 
trancegodz said:
How do you make a preset that sounds good direct, and also thru a real power amp and cab?

I created a Marshall Plexi preset that sounded like I wanted through my studio monitors, and recording direct. I used the 4x12 Marshall cab with Greenbacks sim in the Fractal.

After reading page 19 of the manual I decided to see if I could use the exact same preset I’d just made in the Axe FXII, but using a real power amp, and a real 4x12 Marshall with 25 watt greenbacks to play the Axe FXII through. I assumed it would sound exactly the same, but it is nowhere close. What gives? I tried turning the power amp off and tried leaving it on. I turned the speaker cabinet simulation off in the Axe like it says in the manual, since I was using a real cabinet.

How do you create a preset on the Axe FXII that sounds perfect direct and through studio monitors, and be able to use the same preset with a real power amp and real cab and make it sound the same? Is it possible? If so, how?
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Which poweramp?
 
In what way does it sound wrong through your real cab ?
to bright ? to bassy ? to boxy ? or what ?

Why not start in the other end.
Tweak the amp with the real cab first. That must be the most natural way.

The plexi 100 treb sounds great through my real cab
if I set it to default. I have the effect loop in the chain and my stage guitarcabs signal comes from output 2. I have cab sim after the loop going to output 1 and the pa system. It that way I choose the cab IR as the last step depending on the pa system.
 
Both of mine sound great but my guitar cabs sound a little different, I don't think they can be exactly the same.
If you mike your cab and listen to the room sound and the miked sound through studio monitors or a pa there not going to sound the same. That's why I want a matrix-marshall cab (cab sim off) and a power amp into Custom 2x12 Fr Marshall cabs(who's gonna make them) (cab Sims on)
 
Thomas Larsson said:
In what way does it sound wrong through your real cab ?
to bright ? to bassy ? to boxy ? or what ?

Why not start in the other end.
Tweak the amp with the real cab first. That must be the most natural way.

The plexi 100 treb sounds great through my real cab
if I set it to default. I have the effect loop in the chain and my stage guitarcabs signal comes from output 2. I have cab sim after the loop going to output 1 and the pa system. It that way I choose the cab IR as the last step depending on the pa system.
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It's hard to describe.

Thanks for the tip. It makes sense to try starting at the other end.
I may have to end up creating my live presets by tweaking the Axe while using the real power amp and real cab.

It's great to know your plexi preset sounds great through your real cab.

I just figured because I use a real basketweave Marshall cab with 25 watt greenbacks, that if I created a perfect Plexi preset that I loved through studio monitors (or direct), and then turned off the cab in the preset and used my real Marshall cabinet that it would sound exactly the same.

I know there are a lot of really experienced Axe FX users on the forum who seem to be able to collectively figure out just about anything when it comes to the Axe FX. I'll try everyone's tips and eventually figure it out, if it can be done. If not, I'll just make separate presets for the studio (tweaking while listening to studio monitors), and a duplicate preset for using live (tweaking while listening through the external power amp I'm going to use live and my Marshall cab).
 
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yek said:
If the real amp is a non-neutral poweramp, such as the Mesa, you may have to switch off the poweramp sim.

Still, the coloring of that real poweramp can turn your 'made-for-direct' preset into a rather different sounding tone.

Don't know about the Crown.

See Connecting to a mixing console (opt: with real amp) - Axe-Fx II Wiki for a way to set up presets for both methods.
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Thanks for the tips and link.
I noticed in the link it says "Amp has the SAG parameter set to “0.00” to disable power amp simulation in that block only".
I will try that.
 
My presets that I previously used with an amp and cab translated great to the FRFR side but I noticed that I had to turn the low end/depth down. Other than that, I just turned the cabs on for FRFR.
 
when I had power amps and real cabs what I would do is run the real cab and the FRFR cab simultaneously
and use a PEQ in front of the FX loop (I'd branch if off on a lower row than the rest of my patch)
and just fine tune the sound with the EQ until they were close enough to satisfy me. I had a mesa 50/50
and that amp is going to be "in the way" of a Plexi patch.
with the USA Lead patches it worked great. It worked pretty well with the JVM amps models too.
 
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