Confusion with recto speaker impedances

Thomas Obester

Thomas Obester

Experienced
I’ve used search, but couldn’t find straight answer.

obvious ones :

4x12 recto small - traditional/stiletto 4x12 slant
4x12 recto slant - standard/oversized 4x12 slant

not so obvious :

4x12 recto straight - traditional 4x12 straight ?
4x12 recto large - standard 4x12 straight ?

those 2 curves sounds very similar bigness-wise, but real mesa traditional straight vs standard straight cabs are quite different in response from what I remember.
I’m now in a market to buy one of the recto cabs and those curves inside axe3 could help me decide which real cab could be the right choice for me.

Maybe @York Audio or @FractalAudio can tell ? thanks
 
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This may not be helpful, but:
I have a traditional size recto with V30s (and I love it).
I have tried the 4x12 recto small Speaker Impedance in the Fractal, and it worked 'ok'.
I scrolled through all the options, and found that the PV6160 Speaker Impedance worked better with my Recto cab.

What does that mean?
To me it means - the cab that Fractal measured is different than mine, and that 2 cabs of the same brand/model, can have a different resonating frequencies. Your results may vary, but that's my experience.

I'll also note that I own 2 identical recto cabs, and the top end on each cab sounds very different (both are filled with V30s).

My overall point - I don't know if the Speaker Impedance Curve within the Axe is a good way to judge if you will like cab you are going to purchase (it may or may not resonate the same as the one Fractal measured).

My assessment is not scientific, just what my ears have told me.
 
I was about to open this thread :)

One of my go to amp-cab combinations is the 5153 and YA Recto Oversized.

I remember that @York Audio mentioned about using the 4x12 Recto Large for the Recto IRs. I was also using it. To tame the 5153 - V30 fizz, I tested the other Recto curves. I really liked the 4x12 Recto Straight, while being a bit more nasal, it tamed both the boominess and fizz. Since the other curves have the low resonance values at 111Hz and this one's is 72, I wondered what makes so much difference.

@BBN I'll try the Peavey curve by the way.
 
If you are in a shop it’s even better to try cabs with your head or stuff . It’s rare to find shop with all the Mesa cabs .

I own this 2x12 with V30 recto since forever , all my heads and gear change but never the cab .

Whatever Mesa cab you will have, it will be good . #mesafanboy 😅

A 4x12 is great but for home use and live a 2x12 has always been enough to me
 
Ok, let´s just say I want to know this for my OCD reasons :D

4x12 recto straight - traditional 4x12 straight ?
4x12 recto large - standard 4x12 straight ?
 
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BBN said:
I'll also note that I own 2 identical recto cabs, and the top end on each cab sounds very different (both are filled with V30s).
Click to expand...

That´s because Mesa V30´s has undergone a lot of changes during manufacturing.
the golden years are 2001-2003, where they had the most pleasing top end, mids and overal frequency response.
This is demonstrated in this video :




After that period, those same speakers had much more fizz and whistle, the same goes for speakers made before 2001.
Here´s video, where Nolly (Adam Getgood) explain everything (super interesting IMO) :

 
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Thomas Obester said:
That´s because Mesa V30´s has undergone a lot of changes during manufacturing.
the golden years are 2001-2003, where they had the most pleasing top end, mids and overal frequency response.
This is demonstrated in this video :




After that period, those same speakers had much more fizz and whistle, the same goes for speakers made before 2001.
Here´s video, where Nolly (Adam Getgood) explain everything (super interesting IMO) :

Click to expand...

What's crazy is the 2 cabs were manufactured in the same year. So Mesa likely just picking and chosing from the pile of V30s in their warehouse.

So being that you know there is a difference between recto cabs - how will the Fractal Impedance Curves help you make a decision?
 
interesting - I just replaced some Mesa branded Celestion C90s with new Chinese made Celestion V30s in my 2 Mesa 112 ported cabs because the C90s had that irritating exaggerated very high end ice picky fizzy ssssssssssssszzzzz sound that I also hear from the 2008 speakers in the side by side vid above. With the new Chinese V30s I do not hear that exaggerated sssssssssssszzzzz sound - sounds much closer to the 2001 speakers in the vid - so dunno about all the talk of different gen v30s sounding significantly different. I'm no speaker expert but my results seemed explainable looking at the size of the dust cap on the C90s compared to V30s - huge! - therefore huge ssssssssssssszzzz? - not sure why the 08 English made V30s would sound like that in the vid - seems way off - makes me think something else is at play.
 
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sprint said:
interesting - I just replaced some Mesa branded Celestion C90s with new Chinese made Celestion V30s in my 2 Mesa 112 ported cabs because the C90s had that irritating exaggerated very high end ice picky fizzy ssssssssssssszzzzz sound that I also hear from the 2008 speakers in the side by side vid above. With the new Chinese V30s I do not hear that exaggerated sssssssssssszzzzz sound - sounds much closer to the 2001 speakers in the vid - so dunno about all the talk of different gen v30s sounding significantly different. I'm no speaker expert but my results seemed explainable looking at the size of the dust cap on the C90s compared to V30s - huge! - therefore huge ssssssssssssszzzz? - not sure why the 08 English made V30s would sound like that in the vid - seems way off - makes me think something else is at play.
Click to expand...
in 2nd video Nolly explains there’s golden era of mesa v30’s (2001-2003). everything made before and after that era produce much more fizz. he tried hundreds of those speakers and dated each one. IOW, he went so deep into the rabbit hole, and I like it :) nerdy stuff 🤓
 
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Thomas Obester said:
in 2nd video Nolly explains there’s golden era of mesa v30’s (2001-2003). everything made before and after that era produce much more fizz. he tried hundreds of those speakers and dated each one. IOW, he went so deep into the rabbit hole, and I like it :) nerdy stuff 🤓
Click to expand...
ya - I like the way Nolly describes the characteristic that I don't like and which is heard in the first vid 2008 V30s - he calls it "whistle", "white noise" character. When I hear this too pronounced in a speaker I immediately cringe (hear it in lots of speaker IRs as well) - maybe it's my tinnitus talking - don't need more hi-end "whistle", I already got mine built in lol!. My experience (new Chinese V30s sounding great / no pronounced "whistle" or too "white noisey" hi-end character) aligns with what he thinks which is that the Chinese made V30s are not significantlly different than UK made despite what many posts often suggest (that Chinese made are bright/fizzy compared to UK) - a relief since they are still expensive at 200$Cdn a pop. Initially, I kicked myself cuz I could have initially bought my cabs in 2012 special order loaded with V30s but I got talked into the readily available C90 loaded ones as being just as good if not better which lead me to struggle with them for 9 years until swapping them over to V30s recently - but maybe best at the end of the day if all V30s regardless of manufacture location have drifted a bit back to the 2001-2003 voicing in recent years as Nolly suggests.
 
After listening to the comparison video above, I think I prefer the chewiness of the 2008 version of the cab. Luckily that's the version that York Audio sells and is helping me get the "chainsaw flamethrower" sound that I've been trying to get forever.
 
deathbyguitar said:
After listening to the comparison video above, I think I prefer the chewiness of the 2008 version of the cab. Luckily that's the version that York Audio sells and is helping me get the "chainsaw flamethrower" sound that I've been trying to get forever.
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I can see why you would prefer that, but for me, I’m looking for that 2001-2003 voicing, as I need that smooth response for our super loud playing (+/- 120db every single week) 🤣
for recording, I’m covered with york audio mesa OS v2 and ownhammer Mesa Trad 1993 IR’s :)
 
Thomas Obester said:
I can see why you would prefer that, but for me, I’m looking for that 2001-2003 voicing, as I need that smooth response for our super loud playing (+/- 120db every single week) 🤣
for recording, I’m covered with york audio mesa OS v2 and ownhammer Mesa Trad 1993 IR’s :)
Click to expand...

Well GGD sells an IR plugin with all sorts of variations of that cab, including the one you want. It'll allow you to export the cabs to IR files to upload to the Axe.

https://www.getgooddrums.com/collections/plugins/products/ggd-studio-cabs-cali-oversized-edition
 
deathbyguitar said:
Well GGD sells an IR plugin with all sorts of variations of that cab, including the one you want. It'll allow you to export the cabs to IR files to upload to the Axe.

https://www.getgooddrums.com/collections/plugins/products/ggd-studio-cabs-cali-oversized-edition
Click to expand...
I have this. I've spend maybe an hour with it.
I probably need to spend more time with it, because I found the stock cabs in the Axe to be more to my liking.
Probably just need to keep playing with it - but for 40 bucks, I figured it may be a cool toy.
 
I saw that video with Nolly and Rabea playing through all the speaker types, it´s nice.
I have to say though, I prefer Ownhammer Mesa Trad 1993´s V30 MB1 IR pack - my favourite for recording. it´s bit more spikey in high end, but I dig it for recording.
For super loud playing though, using USA IIC++ with real mesa cab with V30´s 2001-2003 voicing is the one I keep looking for.
Needed to say I am the only guitar in our band and I always cut through the mix, even with darker sound.
I am starting to think I could be happy with either standard or traditional, as long as they have inside smooth sounding v30´s from that era.
 
Thomas Obester said:
4x12 recto small - traditional/stiletto 4x12 slant
4x12 recto slant - standard/oversized 4x12 slant

not so obvious :

4x12 recto straight - traditional 4x12 straight ?
4x12 recto large - standard 4x12 straight ?
Click to expand...

small is smaller (slant??)
slant is oversized slant
straight is oversize (??) straight
large is oversize straight/slant (box cab, slant baffle)
 
BBN said:
I'll also note that I own 2 identical recto cabs, and the top end on each cab sounds very different (both are filled with V30s).
Click to expand...
I have one of each, and I cannot tell the difference. Both slant, both V30's. Weird how some guys really have a preference.
Thomas Obester said:
That´s because Mesa V30´s has undergone a lot of changes during manufacturing.
the golden years are 2001-2003, where they had the most pleasing top end, mids and overal frequency response.
Click to expand...
Do you know a way to date the speakers in your cabs?
 
Was this ever clarified? I was looking exactly for the same answer.

I own a Rectifier 4x12 Standard Slant, that by Mesa website is the Oversized, vs the smaller Traditional/Stiletto one.

Regarding the impedance curves using a class D SS power amp, should i chose the 4x12 recto slant because mine is slant or the 4x12 recto large because it's oversized? I'm really confused about the "4x12 recto large" what is it?? By Mesa website their cabs are either standard (oversized) or traditional/stiletto (smaller) but there is no "large" recto cabs.
 
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