Confused with AMP blocks and F/W updates

SteveW

SteveW

Experienced
I know from time to time, some F/W updates have a more dramatic effect on the amp blocks than others, and that to get the best results, I should reset the AMP blocks I'm using when doing those F/W updates.

Obviously, I'm not going to select hundreds of amps and do them one by one.

I use maybe 3-5 amps here and there, so to reset those is no big deal...but a backup and restore will only bring them back to the settings there were at before the restore...so not much point doing backups / restores on them if I'm going to reset them I guess?

If I want to do a wholesale reset, do I wipe the banks and re-install them with the latest presets? Is that the way to do it?

I'm probably missing something here, so I'm open to anything constructive!
 
SteveW said:
If I want to do a wholesale reset, do I wipe the banks and re-install them with the latest presets? Is that the way to do it?
Click to expand...

Don't think that would work.

I think of a preset as a collection of parameters.

Presets that were optimized for a certain firmware contain the optimized or default parameters for that firmware. As the firmware changes, the default values will change but previously stored presets will not reflect those new default values.

For example, factory presets were updated awhile ago but I would guess that the values in those presets no longer reflect the amp defaults for firmware 7.02. Just reloading that set of factory presets will not update you. What does update the default values is to select an amp in a given preset, toggle to a new amp and then bring back the original amp. When you bring it back, it should be brought back with current default values since these are built into the amp block itself. But all amp parameters will be set to default so any amp customizations in that preset will also be lost.

This is a problem for me too, since I like to use factory presets as starting points for my own preset work. Not sure if there is a good solution here.
 
I just posted a similar thread on AMP BLOCK reset ('the voodoo'). Maybe we can collect the questions, get some authoritative answers, and graft this into the Wiki.
 
First....If you have any presets that you have created or edited, It is always a good idea to backup everything, especially before updating. You might want to roll back if you don't like the new firmware or if there are any bugs.

As for the Factory presets....You only need to reset the ones that you use, as you use them? As far as I know, there are no advanced tweaks in the Factory presets, so resetting them is a bit less painful.

Resetting you own presets can be a huge task if you have tweaked a bunch of advanced parameters. I usually copy the X state to the Y state (if unused). Then reset the X state, and check how it sounds against clips that I have of the original presets for the over-all balance. Then I copy the settings from the 'Basic' and 'EQ' pages using the Y state as a guide and check how it sounds. If I need to, I start tweaking the advanced parameters and checking it against the clips.

They often sound a bit different, but always better in the end.
 
So it's only the settings within the amp block that may change from F/W to F/W, correct? If I take a snapshot of the settings and then default the block, I can tweak only what I wish to?

I start with factory presets sometimes, and then remove and add the amp block. Then I dial in that block. I never use the same amp block that was in the preset from factory anyway.
 
So, given that the updates are "improving" the amp blocks, why not just add an "option" (this could even be 2 versions of the same firmware update) to allow the firmware to "wipe" and update all amp blocks during install. Assuming users have properly backed up their presets from the previous version, and don't like the results, they could always go back to the previous version and re-install without using the "option" to update all blocks.
 
SteveW said:
So it's only the settings within the amp block that may change from F/W to F/W, correct? If I take a snapshot of the settings and then default the block, I can tweak only what I wish to?

I start with factory presets sometimes, and then remove and add the amp block. Then I dial in that block. I never use the same amp block that was in the preset from factory anyway.
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Yes and Yes

If you start with a Factory preset, instead of removing and adding it back, just select a different Amp model, the re-select the original Amp model. This will reset all of the advanced and 'hidden' parameters. Then dial anything that you wish.

When starting from a blank preset. Selecting any Amp model will load it with all of the default parameters from the get-go.
 
Yesterday I updated to FW 7.01 on my AX8. The advise on this forum is to do a soft reset of the AMP. But I had presets which I tweaked to sound the way I like it and when using the advised way of working my sound gets worse. This was eg. the case for Herbie Ch3. When I do a soft reset and then exactly copy the original settings the sound is again as a like it but even better then before. So when I compare the presets (according to my personal taste of course!) they are now in the following order: 1) Reset with copied settings 2) Original with same settings 3) Reset with defaults. Note: I became aware of this behavior because the default settings had less volume (which I corrected for 1 and 3). Which is actually not mentioned in the release notes. But maybe I based my preset on an already earlier preset without resetting.......

Based on this experience (I am a new very happy AX8 user, but this is my first big FW update) I have the following questions:
1) How does it work that 1 and 2 are different. Is in the stored presets also stored on which FW it was based and does this preset then in case of new FW still follows the old logic / algorithms? Actually it is good, because in this way new FW does not impact old presets.
2) In case you have done your sound design is it then always the best to go back to the new defaults? This can to my opinion only be the case if your presets are always based on the defaults. If you do a lot of tweaking this will not work out well I think.
3) When you do a soft reset and then copy your original settings you can hear the net impact of the new FW and you can then check whether it gets better, which was for me in this example actually the case (going back to the new defaults made it worse).
4) If statement 3 makes sense then I have the question why is there not a button where you can activate the new FW for your old presets with your own original settings? Now you have to create pictures of all the tabs and then manually correct everything back for every preset.

Am I missing something or does the above make sense? Thanks in advance for the replies!
 
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When algorithms change in a FW and your preset is set to a older default value, chances are it will not sound the same as it did on that older firmware. The best example I can give is like changing a Presence pot out in a real amp, and replacing it with a pot with a completely different taper. If you then set the presence where you previously had it set, it would sound completely different because the entire pot taper is different, so a setting of 5 on your presence pot now sounds like a setting of 9 because of the new taper of the pot. Just because you set it to 5 doesn't mean it is going to sound the same way it did with the old pot with the different taper.
This is why you want to do a soft reset of your amps, that way you are getting the proper settings for each of these advanced parameters. Once the new firmware is installed you are hearing the new algorithms, but you are hearing them with old settings which in some cases could make the new firmware sound like ass because things are turned up too much or too little.

Hope that rambling made sense....
 
Pwrmac7600 said:
When algorithms change in a FW and your preset is set to a older default value, chances are it will not sound the same as it did on that older firmware. The best example I can give is like changing a Presence pot out in a real amp, and replacing it with a pot with a completely different taper. If you then set the presence where you previously had it set, it would sound completely different because the entire pot taper is different, so a setting of 5 on your presence pot now sounds like a setting of 9 because of the new taper of the pot. Just because you set it to 5 doesn't mean it is going to sound the same way it did with the old pot with the different taper.
This is why you want to do a soft reset of your amps, that way you are getting the proper settings for each of these advanced parameters. Once the new firmware is installed you are hearing the new algorithms, but you are hearing them with old settings which in some cases could make the new firmware sound like ass because things are turned up too much or too little.

Hope that rambling made sense....
Click to expand...
I understand and agree what you are saying. But that still does not explain my first question. Why are two presets with exactly the same settngs sounding different in the same FW version (the untouched old one and then one based on a reset and then I applied the same settings)?
 
Abc said:
I understand and agree what you are saying. But that still does not explain my first question. Why are two presets with exactly the same settngs sounding different in the same FW version (the untouched old one and then one based on a reset and then I applied the same settings)?
Click to expand...
There has to be a setting that you missed. It happened to me too. It turned out the speaker size parameter had defaulted to the smallest speaker size setting and was making the preset sound completely different.
 
Abc said:
I understand and agree what you are saying. But that still does not explain my first question. Why are two presets with exactly the same settngs sounding different in the same FW version (the untouched old one and then one based on a reset and then I applied the same settings)?
Click to expand...
Because not all settings are user accessible. Some will change covertly.
 
Pwrmac7600 said:
There has to be a setting that you missed. It happened to me too. It turned out the speaker size parameter had defaulted to the smallest speaker size setting and was making the preset sound completely different.
Click to expand...
Thanks I will check again. If that's the case my statements make no sense!
 
Hubertus said:
Because not all settings are user accessible. Some will change covertly.
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If this is the case these two presets the old one and the new one with the same setting can sound different on the same FW? Or is the remark from Pwrmac7600 correct that I must have missed a setting in the new one?
 
Abc said:
If this is the case these two presets the old one and the new one with the same setting can sound different on the same FW? Or is the remark from Pwrmac7600 correct that I must have missed a setting in the new one?
Click to expand...
My bad, missed the same FW part.
 
Abc said:
If this is the case these two presets the old one and the new one with the same setting can sound different on the same FW? Or is the remark from Pwrmac7600 correct that I must have missed a setting in the new one?
Click to expand...
Mystery solved!! I indeed overlooked one parameter. It was Harmonics in the preamp. This has apparently quite an effect on the character of the sound but also on the volume! Thanks all for the replies! My post above makes no sense anymore. AX8 is perfect!
 
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