Complex Routing with 4CM, 4 pickup outputs and outboard gear. Input needed

L

Luca9583

Inspired
Hi folks


I've been considering the Axe III to downsize my rig and to also make it function as a router.

Is the following possible, using all the inputs and outputs?


4 Inputs for a guitar with 4 pickup outputs

1 x Send and Return for an outboard fx chain/switcher

1 x Additional fx return

1 x Input for front end of an amp

1 x Send and 2 x Returns (L & R) for main amp's fx loop and a second amp's return

2 x Outputs (L & R) for a separate modelled signal path using amp and cab blocks direct to FOH.

I know there are enough Inputs and Outputs for this but was wondering which are the most suited. For example, the 4 pickup outputs would need to sacrifice the "secret sauce" input, but the manual says the other inputs are fine for guitars. Is there a big tonal difference?


Also a few other questions

Would there be any latency when switching presets with this kind of routing?

Does the Synth block in the Axe III track the low B of a 5 String bass?
 
No, that amount of in/out is not possible. There are only 4 inputs and 4 outputs TOTAL; you might be able to route and pan the outs in such a manner that partially serves your needs, though. I think the Helix would actually get you closer since it has the ability to separate it's FX loops L and R outputs and inputs (so you can do mono or stereo). Plus it's got a guitar input as well as an Aux input (so, essentially 6 inputs and 8 outputs:

Ins: Guitar, Aux, FX Return 1,2,3,4
Outs: FX Send 1,2,3,4, 1/4" Outs (stereo), XLR Outs (stereo)

There is a little latency when switching presets regardless of how complex each preset is.

No idea about the tracking of the low B or using the other inputs for guitar, sorry. Hope this helps a little :)

EDIT: I should note that while the ins/outs on the Axe are stereo (except 1), they all function a little differently and the inputs cannot be separated. Outs 1 and 2 are designed for FOH and your FRFR (or amp) and ins/outs 3 & 4 are more for outboard gear - or to be used as FX loops (of course you're free to use them as you please). So, yeah, the Axe TECHNICALLY has more than 4 ins/outs as far as number of jacks, but in practice, that's it. More, of course, if you count USB.
 
decreebass said:
I should note that while the ins/outs on the Axe are stereo (except 1), they all function a little differently and the inputs cannot be separated.
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There are ways to select L or R in separate rows e.g. volume block input select parameter.

The main issue with the OP is that it looks like 8 input channels are needed. Since Input 1 is mono the Axe III only has 7 analog input channels. A workaround could be sending 2 channels through a separate AD converter, out to Axe via SPDIF/AES. I'm not sure if the Axe currently supports stereo SPDIF/AES input.
 
Thanks guys..i think i didn’t word some of my requirements correctly..it should actually read:

4 x Axe Inputs for a guitar with 4 pickup outputs

1 x Axe Output and 1 x Axe Input for an outboard fx chain/switcher that has a Reverb and a few more pedals in loops.

1 x Additional Axe Input for the right output of the outboard Reverb

1 x Axe Output to front end of amp

1 x Axe Input to receive Amp’s send signal, and 2 x Axe Outputs to two Amp’s returns.

2 x Outputs (L & R) for a separate modelled signal path using amp and cab blocks direct to FOH.

7 Inputs total
6 Outputs total

I would then need a lot of Volume/Pan blocks to route everything
 
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I think your best bet is to find someone locally with one and see if you can't sit down with them for an hour to see if your routing is possible. It's extremely confusing to try to visualize without having all the cables and amps and guitar(s) hooked up and doing things through trial and error with access to the grid and all the blocks' settings.

Good luck; I would love to see this setup in action!
 
The Axe III has 4 analog ins/outs, an AES in/out, an SPDIF in/out and the USB interface.

As previously stated, your proposed setup is difficult to follow. You may also be thinking of hooking up in ways that are biased by your current/past rigs. You state that you need 7 inputs/6 outputs. If these are analog connections, then this is not directly achievable on the Axe. There may be other ways to support that many connections if you move some of the connections away from the Axe unit (e.g. a MIDI controllable loop switcher). Stating your goals, instead of how you think everything will be connected may lead to more meaningful feedback.

I have a fairly complex setup. I have both 4cm and FRFR. I also have outboard rack gear that is integrated with the rig. I have one spare analog input with this setup.
 
Capt Nasty actually the idea was to see if i could downsize my current rig which has a Switchblade 8F in the front end, followed by an Effect Gizmo for both pre and post fx in 4CM with an Axe II in 4CM.

My proposed setup is quite simple actually if the Axe III can do it:

Guitar > Axe III > 4CM with Marshall

It’s not a question of how i think everything should be connected as i know this already..i was hoping that the Axe III could do all the routing i need (in addition to replacing a few stompboxes which we already know it can) without the need for the Switchblade and Effect Gizmo.

I see my Axe II as having 4 physical Analog Inputs and Outputs when these are routed with Vol/Pan blocks in the grid, so really i just wanted to see if the same can be done with the Axe III’s additional Inputs and Outputs.

With only 4 Vol/Pan blocks available though, this might not be achievable, unless a future Firmware update could provide more left or right routing per Row on the grid.
 
Not sure , but perhaps judicious use of the new Multiplex Block on the III May assist in your routing quest...
 
I have a similar setup.

Guitar > ISP Pro Rack G > Axe III > Marshall JVM 410 HJS > FX Send > ISP Pro Rack G > Axe III > FX Return

All device inter-connections are isolated by an EBTech Hum Eliminator HE 8. I only needed 2 inputs and 2 outputs on the Axe III for the 4cm hookup.

I am guessing that it is the guitar hookup driving the increase in required inputs? As in one guitar with 4 connections? Or is it 4 different guitars each with their own inputs?

The output FOH can be done with a single analog output. The analog outputs are stereo.

Where do you foresee the effect switcher? In front of the amp? In the FX loop?

What your last post described was :
Guitar > Axe III > Marshall > FX Send > Axe III > FX Return Amp 1
> FX Return Amp 2

Still do not understand why you think you need all of that I/O.
 
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Luca9583 said:
7 Inputs total
6 Outputs total

I would then need a lot of Volume/Pan blocks to route everything
Click to expand...

Here's the back panel:
III-rear-transparent-e1517268585239.png


You have 7 inputs and 8 outputs. In 2/3/4 and Out 1/2/3/4 are stereo so you'll have to deal with panning as you already noted.
 
I've done some experimenting with 7 inputs from one guitar - In 1 was the normal pickup input and 2/3/4 were from a Roland GK pickup connected to a fanout box. It is doable.
 
So using the analog stereo ins/outs as discrete mono connectors. I see what you are doing there Tim. Did you have any ground loop problems? A lot of noise?
 
Capt Nasty said:
So using the analog stereo ins/outs as discrete mono connectors. I see what you are doing there Tim. Did you have any ground loop problems? A lot of noise?
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No ground loops. No noise. I've done a bunch of experimenting with using the L/R in/outs as separate loops for mono effects - the only hassle is the extra panning. If you had to do a lot of these, I think you could run out of ways to route things. It would be sweet if @FractalAudio would add separate L/R blocks for all the ins and outs though.
 
hippietim said:
No ground loops. No noise. I've done a bunch of experimenting with using the L/R in/outs as separate loops for mono effects - the only hassle is the extra panning. If you had to do a lot of these, I think you could run out of ways to route things. It would be sweet if @FractalAudio would add separate L/R blocks for all the ins and outs though.
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That would be cool. Like a stereo and mono mode.
 
Just for the record... there are a few more blocks that can isolate their left and right inputs. The two 'Crossover' blocks, as well as the four 'Drive' blocks, and the two 'Amp' blocks, if they are being used?

I would need more detailed info on the exact needs of the individual Inputs/Outputs to be more helpful.
 
Capt Nasty said:
I am guessing that it is the guitar hookup driving the increase in required inputs? As in one guitar with 4 connections?
Still do not understand why you think you need all of that I/O.
Click to expand...

I’ll explain my current setup further. Thanks everyone for all the help so far.

Guitar with 4 Pickups/4 Outputs > Switchblade

The Switchblade routes the 4 signals from the guitar in various combinations with some other effects.

Switchblade Out A > Effect Gizmo In 1-4

The Gizmo has the Axe II front fx, a 1U Reverb unit and the front of an ISP Pro Rack G

Gizmo Out 1-4 > Marshall front

Marshall send > Gizmo In 5-8

Gizmo 5-8 are the rear ISP Pro Rack G, the dry post ISP Marshall signal going to a mixer, and a send to the Axe II post effects

The Axe II post fx outputs also go to the mixer and get summed with the post ISP dry Marshall signal. The L side of the sum then goes to the Marshall return, the R side of the sum goes to an EHX Magnum.

Switchblade Out B is an output going into a spare Axe input.

The Reverb unit has a second output going into a second spare Axe input so that the Reverb runs in stereo into the Marshall preamp and a modelled preamp in the Axe
 
Given that you're familiar with the Axe II and Switchblade, you should probably take the time to read through the Axe III manual and try and manually recreate your most complex patch and see if it's doable. Volume/Pan, Drive, and Amp blocks let you choose whether you want L, R, or Stereo inputs. Pretty much every block lets you pan. Mixer and Null Filter blocks are good tools to use here as well.

I believe all of those blocks work pretty much the same on the Axe II so you can validate whether or not what you want to do is viable using the two sets of ins and outs - you just can't do everything at once.
 
Thanks. The Drive blocks could work as extra routers set 100% dry, but it would mean sacrificing a few Drives which should be ok.

Thanks everyone. My main question was really to know how extensive the internal grid routing of all the Inputs and Outputs is so it seems like the workaround would be finding enough “dummy” blocks for routing.
 
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